SillyDog701

[yo-yo]

The pop up blocker has the same issue. I had to get the Netscape browser to deal with that issue. (Which I do recommend to PC users)

Actually, Firefox is my prefrence. Let's just say that is is a very good browser and leave it at that.

As for spyware. There's no denying that the amount of people who use a version of Windows outweighs the number of people using an OS from Apple. This is a factor. I'm conceding that. However, another factor is the GUI and general layout differences between the two.

I would say that it is the bigger of the two factors. Ok, let's assume that Macs are more stable than PCs without an argument for now. That still does not prevent their security from having holes. They would get many more viruses if they were the bigger target. How the system would handle it, we don't know.

For PC things went terribly wrong using Internet Explorer but fine using a combination of Spysweeper, The Spyware remover that comes in SP2 (Who's name escapes me), Netscape Browser, and most importantly an installed firewall. (This was the key.) That's a lot of time and energy spent trying to basically solve the puzzle of "How to get my PC to run well."

Again, use Firefox, SP2 (service pack 2), and set your programs to automatic upgrade, and you should have no problems (assuming you are careful enough with email). There you go.

As for feel, I prefer the feel of my PC, and I imagine that if I were given a Mac and if I used it for a while, I would accept its feel.

This is a matter of preference. I was simply making the point that there are all these benchmark tests to tell you how much faster a PC is than a Mac, but I'm fairly sure they don't use a PC or Mac that have both been in regular use for 6 months to a year. They probably use a Mac or PC right off the line. This could factor into those numbers.

Ok, but I have had mine for a few years, and it still runs fast. I don't know if it is as fast as it was when I got it, but it certainly isn't much slower.

Finally, it seems that Apple and Microsoft both made their sites to work better on their OS. I found that interesting.

I agree. I noticed that myself throughout all this. Apple's website I think actually might give Windows users a little more trouble than Microsoft's gives Mac users. Shame on both of them there.

Well, it just goes to show that both companies care about making themselves look better seriously. That is why I try to avoid both companies when looking for information, as any provided would probably be incomplete and biased.
As I was saying, some things, such as graphics and ease of use used to be much better on a Mac, but now the diffrence is much smaller. However, I will not argue that Macs have an advantage in ease of use. I do not know how big that advantage is.

UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.7) Gecko/20050414 Firefox/1.0.3

[trueshit]

"OS X can spit out the cd/dvd when putting it in the trash can"

Damn: just right click in win xp and chose "eject"

"apple can turn on by keyboard button"

all pc's can do that too, just set it up in the bios


AND the reason why Windows is bigger is because all the goodies comes to windows first... Like all the new games.

And mac games allways SUCK 4 real.


Only reason to buy a mac is if you're a graphics designer.

3D get a Real graphics computer (around $4000 for a cheap one)

make Music use PC!

Apple is not a bad computer, but its not a computer for the average user / family who wants to play 3d games...

UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; da-DK; rv:1.7.6) Gecko/20050321 Firefox/1.0.2

[yo-yo]

"OS X can spit out the cd/dvd when putting it in the trash can"

Damn: just right click in win xp and chose "eject"

I don't know if that is true, as I have yet to find out how to do it... not that I care. Hitting the button is fine with me if I'm just going to reach over and take it out anyway.

"apple can turn on by keyboard button"

all pc's can do that too, just set it up in the bios

I haven't seen a PC do that, but, again, it is a small issue.

AND the reason why Windows is bigger is because all the goodies comes to windows first... Like all the new games.

And mac games allways SUCK 4 real.

Macs are definatly a bad choice for gamers- not only do lack many games, they tend to do worse with them.

Only reason to buy a mac is if you're a graphics designer.

3D get a Real graphics computer (around $4000 for a cheap one)

make Music use PC!

Apple is not a bad computer, but its not a computer for the average user / family who wants to play 3d games...

Actually, the Mac has little or no advantage in the graphics catagory anymore (yes it used to, but that's the past). The big points for Macs are ease of use and no one makes viruses for them. Please, no arguments about "UNIX is stable." It hasn't been a big target recently, except for one contest: "Within 12 hours of announcing an open contest to successfully create and deploy an 'in the wild' active virus for Mac OS X...DVForge Inc. canceled the campaign saying it was ill advised and fraught with legal concerns." There is no proof of stability, so don't argue that.

UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.7) Gecko/20050414 Firefox/1.0.3

[DJGM]

"apple can turn on by keyboard button"

all pc's can do that too, just set it up in the bios

Now there's one (albeit minor) Mac advantage. This feature doesn't require any such low level changes
on the Mac. Switching the system on as well as off via a key on the keyboard just works out of the box.

That even applies to the Power button on the ADB keyboard connected to my Power Macintosh G3,
not just to the newer (and physically more up to date) Apple Mac computers you can currently buy.

UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.8b) Gecko/20050205

[Antony]

"apple can turn on by keyboard button"

all pc's can do that too, just set it up in the bios

Now there's one (albeit minor) Mac advantage. This feature doesn't require any such low level changes
on the Mac. Switching the system on as well as off via a key on the keyboard just works out of the box.

That even applies to the Power button on the ADB keyboard connected to my Power Macintosh G3,
not just to the newer (and physically more up to date) Apple Mac computers you can currently buy.

Also, you can switch on, switch off, wake up, or put your Mac to sleep from a single touch on the beautiful Apple Cinema Display.

Where's the PC match?

UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X; en) AppleWebKit/412 (KHTML, like Gecko) Safari/412

[yo-yo]

Also, you can switch on, switch off, wake up, or put your Mac to sleep from a single touch on the beautiful Apple Cinema Display.

Where's the PC match?

My power button will turn on, wake up, or shut off my PC, depending on its state. It will hibernate eventually, but why would I need a shortcut for that?

UserAgent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.0)

[EddiePaxil]

Guys, Guys, Guys. This discussion has turned to the power and eject buttons. That is not a good sign. It's like third grade now.

"My G.I. Joe has the Kung Fu Grip how about yours."

C'Mon

UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X; en) AppleWebKit/312.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Safari/312

[yo-yo]

Ok, it has gotten off track, so I'll try to get it back on.
Pros of PCs:
lower cost
more software
faster
more/better quality games

Pros of Macs:
easier to use
look good
convenient features

Both:
stable
come with good programs

If anyone comes up with anything else, post it. Also, I am only considering recent systems.

UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.7) Gecko/20050414 Firefox/1.0.3

[EddiePaxil]

Pros of PCs:
lower cost
more software
faster
more/better quality games

I agree, except the faster part. I have run the same audio program on comparable Macs and PC's. I can tell you that the Mac was faster. Yet I've found that Internet Browsers are generally faster on PC's. I think "faster or slower" is task specific.

Pros of Macs:
easier to use
look good
convenient features

I agree here.

Both:
stable
come with good programs

Here I've got some beef.

Once I did alot of work on my PC it became stable. However that's what turned me off about them. Out of the box the tools to make it stable weren't good enough.

Which leads to your second statement. That both come with good programs. Well, you yourself said you don't use Internet Explorer you use Firefox. Firefox is something you had to find and download. I bet because you didn't like IE. But, Internet Explorer is what one is handed with XP Pro out of the box. While Apple hands you Safari, which is waaaaaay better than IE. And if anyone even bother to say IE is better than Safari please, Anthony, suspend them immediately. Take the fact that if you don't shell out extra money for Office all you get with XP is Word Pad, compare that to Text Edit. No Comparison. One thing XP has that OSX lacks. a decent paint program. You'd think with the rep Macs have for Graphics a paint program would be included, but no. You gotta go out and get one. Overall OSX comes with better programs however.

Here's what OSX Tiger offers out of the box:

Applications

Address Book 4
Automator
Calculator 4
Chess
Dashboard
Dictionary
DVD Player 4.5
Font Book 2
iCal 2
iChat AV 3
Image Capture 3
Internet Connect
iSync 2
iTunes 4.7.1
Mail 2
Preview 3
QuickTime 7 Player
Safari 2
Sherlock
Stickies
System Preferences
TextEdit

Utilities

Activity Monitor
AirPort Admin Utility
AirPort Setup Assistant
Audio MIDI Setup
Bluetooth File Exchange
ColorSync Utility
Console
Digital Color Meter
Directory Access
Disk Utility
Faxing
FileVault
Grab
Grapher
Installer
Keychain Access
Migration Assistant
NetInfo Manager
Network Utility
ODBC Administrator
Printer Setup Utility
Setup Assistant
System Profiler
Terminal
VoiceOver Utility
X11

Now here's the amazing thing I can't even find a list of what Windows offers out of the box. Not one. I do believe it's fewer though. Feels that way at least. If someone knows where to get a list of apps that come with XP post it to compare. I don't want folks including Microsoft Office because that costs extra. Also, no one start posting all these apps and demo software that Dell and HP offer at a reduced price and Demo versions. Just what's included on the Windows XP OS CD, that's it.

So while both can be made stable. I don't think both come with the tools to keep them stable. OSX comes with those tools. On PC you have to acquire them. I don't think both come with good programs. OSX comes with good programs. Windows has more programs available so you can again, acquire good programs, but it doesn't come with them.

UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X; en) AppleWebKit/312.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Safari/312

[Antony]

Also, you can switch on, switch off, wake up, or put your Mac to sleep from a single touch on the beautiful Apple Cinema Display.

Where's the PC match?

My power button will turn on, wake up, or shut off my PC, depending on its state. It will hibernate eventually, but why would I need a shortcut for that?

The power button on your monitor to control your PC?

You missed the beauty of simplicity, and the ability of hiding your computer tower completely (if wanted.)

why would I need a shortcut for that?

Not why you need, but your PC CANNOT do such simple tasks from the display and have your computer concealed completely.

UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X; en) AppleWebKit/412 (KHTML, like Gecko) Safari/412

[Andrew T.]

For what it's worth, I do not have any desire for any computer to turn on by a button on a keyboard or display, or eject removable media through mouse commands. I prefer computers in desktop cases, and all the controls necessary for me to do these things are right in front of me anyway.

Until an OEM begins to sensibly preinstall another browser once again, Windows PCs typically come preloaded with Internet Explorer while Mac computers come loaded with Safari and old versions of IE. I personally prefer Mozilla Firefox to both. The best tools are not necessarily the ones preinstalled "out of the box."

UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win95; en-US; rv:1.7.7) Gecko/20050414 Firefox/1.0.3

[EddiePaxil]

For what it's worth, I do not have any desire for any computer to turn on by a button on a keyboard or display, or eject removable media through mouse commands. I prefer computers in desktop cases, and all the controls necessary for me to do these things are right in front of me anyway.

Like I said I thought this issue was abit silly. I personally like the power and eject button, but when I used a PC regularly it didn't kill me to actually reach to the tower. I never found it some grand annoyance that needed to be eradicated.

The best tools are not necessarily the ones preinstalled "out of the box."

True but that's the only measuring stick that's fair to use in a discussion like this. One person might have a PC that's fantastic because of all these great things that they added. Another has a great Mac because thay have evrything you can get for a MAC and they have Virtual PC with all the things that PC user has. However, not everyone has the knowledge, time, or resources to do all that. Not to mention. Everyone has a Home Computer for a different reason. So one person's system is better for what they do while the others is better for what they do. The only fair comparison, is what comes "out of the box" with the comparable OSes. Right now that's OSX Tiger and Windows XP w/ SP2.

UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X; en) AppleWebKit/312.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Safari/312

[yo-yo]

Pros of PCs:
lower cost
more software
faster
more/better quality games

I agree, except the faster part. I have run the same audio program on comparable Macs and PC's. I can tell you that the Mac was faster. Yet I've found that Internet Browsers are generally faster on PC's. I think "faster or slower" is task specific.

Well, in many graphics tests I've seen, the PC is 1.5-2 times as fast as the Mac. Even if they lose some speed with age, they have more than enough speed to make up for it.

Both:
stable
come with good programs

Here I've got some beef.

Once I did alot of work on my PC it became stable. However that's what turned me off about them. Out of the box the tools to make it stable weren't good enough.
...
Take the fact that if you don't shell out extra money for Office all you get with XP is Word Pad, compare that to Text Edit. No Comparison. One thing XP has that OSX lacks. a decent paint program. You'd think with the rep Macs have for Graphics a paint program would be included, but no. You gotta go out and get one. Overall OSX comes with better programs however.

Well, if you want the costs to match up, you have to buy the computor and a number of other things. Otherwise, you pay a very low price for a very low quality system. That's how Microsoft works (no pun intended). Basically, you get what you pay for.

The power button on your monitor to control your PC?

No, this is the power button on my PC, not the monitor. I just got a new monitor, by the way. That's the advantage of having a seperate montior: you can upgrade it.

UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.7) Gecko/20050414 Firefox/1.0.3

[yo-yo]

Hello? This is getting quiet... does this mean PCs win due to lack of competition?

UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.8) Gecko/20050511 Firefox/1.0.4

[Antony]

The power button on your monitor to control your PC?

No, this is the power button on my PC, not the monitor. I just got a new monitor, by the way. That's the advantage of having a seperate montior: you can upgrade it.

You can also upgrade monitors for your Mac, except those all-in-one models.

UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X; en) AppleWebKit/412 (KHTML, like Gecko) Safari/412