SillyDog701

[Antony]

Okay, I know this is not a new topic, but we don't have a topic on this.

This has been a debating topic for many years, and there's no conclusion or a compromised solution as of now. This reminds the Betamax vs VHS in home video tap format.

I will start with a quick comparison:

DVD
(for the sake of comparison, I will add DVD)
disc capacity: 4.7 GB (single layer) and 8.5 GB (dual layer)
supported video game consoles: PlayStation 2, PlayStation 3, Xbox, Xbox 360, Nintendo Revolution

Blu-ray
The main company behind this format is Sony
disc capacity: 25 GB (single layer) and 50 GB (dual layer)
supported video game console: PlayStation 3

HD-DVD
The main company behind this format is Toshiba.
disc capacity: 15 GB (single layer) and 30 GB (dual layer)
supported video game console: Xbox 360

Most movie studios would support both formats, except Sony Pictures (MGM/Columbia TriStar) would go for Blu-ray only and Universal would go for HD-DVD.

Note: The GB used in this post is defined as in one thousand million bytes, as in general terms used in tech specs.

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[Don_HH2K]

Just a quick clarification: the Nintendo Revolution (aka Wii) does use DVD-style discs now, but it doesn't actually have DVD playback yet. There's been speculation that the Wii will be updated with DVD playback capability in a future firmware update.

While the Nintendo GameCube didn't ship with a DVD player either, Panasonic released the "Panasonic Q" which could play back CDs and DVDs in addition to GameCube games. It was released only in Japan and ceased production in 2003.

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[Antony]

Thanks Don for additional information.

At current stage, it is interesting to note that the major companies backing up those formats are:

Blu-ray
(main backers): Sony, Matsushita (Panasonics) and Philips
Apple, Dell, Hewlett Packard, LG, Pioneer...

HD-DVD
(main backers): Toshiba and NEC
Canon, Microsoft, Intel...

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[Don_HH2K]

Two "Blu-ray"s? (I think the second one should be HD-DVD given Microsoft's backing, but I'm not entirely sure what source you had.)

Also, there's something I've noticed about HP's support of Blu-ray. Their press release claims they're supporting it, but all of their machines that feature a third-gen optical drive have HD-DVD drives opposed to Blu-ray drives. Dell doesn't appear to be shipping either yet.

Both formats use the same three codecs, MPEG-2, MPEG-4/AVC, and VC-1. From what I've read, most Blu-ray discs seem to be using MPEG-2 more than either of the two newer formats (the distribution is roughly 50/25/25 respectively), while most HD-DVD titles are released in VC-1.

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[Antony]

Thanks, Antony does not speak English. you know that.

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[Antony]

A bad news to Microsoft (and hence HD-DVD) supporters? In a major blow to the HD DVD camp, Microsoft has conceded the Xbox 360 games console may eventually support Blu-ray.

Microsoft's Xbox 360 needs an optional "Xbox360 HD DVD player", which costs US$199.99 (AU$250).

Today's news from iTWire,

Xbox UK head Neil Thompson has stated that if Blu-ray defeats HD-DVD in the high-def format war then Microsoft will add Blu-ray support to the Xbox 360, reports Gamasutra.

Speaking to the BBC, Thompson is quoted as saying: "Whatever format wins it is highly likely we will offer a solution. The only debate is if you want to watch Blu-ray movies and pay the extra money for that feature. We prefer to offer the consumer choice."

Thompson's comments come as Sony's Blu-ray enabled PlayStation 3 hits the shelves in Europe, the Middle East and Australia. Microsoft plans to release an optional HD DVD player for the Xbox 360 next week, but Thompson's comments leave open the possibility of an optional Blu-ray player in the future.

Xbox 360 comes with a 20GB hard drive for AU$650, add the Xbox 360 HD DVD Player will be AU$900 which is only AU$100 cheaper than Sony's PlayStation 3 (comes with a 60GB hard drive and a built-in Blu-ray player as standard.)

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[Don_HH2K]

That's the reason that Microsoft didn't include a hi-def drive with the 360. There's no clear winner yet (nor was there one when the 360 began shipping) in the HD format war, and packaging an HD-DVD drive with every single console could potentially mean a lot of wasted money in the long run.

Personally I have a feeling that Microsoft will bundle an HD drive in the second-gen or (or third-gen or higher) console, once there's a definite winner.

Truth to tell I had started out supporting HD-DVD earlier last year. That was due to how Sony has historically lost format wars, like VHS vs Betamax and AC-3 vs DTS vs ATRAC. Given the sales this time around, though, it does look like Blu-ray might catch on.

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[Antony]

Truth to tell I had started out supporting HD-DVD earlier last year. That was due to (...)

Microsoft chose to side with HD-DVD. We know

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[Don_HH2K]

Truth to tell I had started out supporting HD-DVD earlier last year. That was due to (...)

Microsoft chose to side with HD-DVD. We know

Keep reading. It's because "Sony has historically lost format wars."

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[Antony]

Blu-ray is winning the war? The current situation seems so. (Blu-ray v. HD DVD: Where do we stand?, Cnet)

It is estimated that there are 1.5 million Blu-ray players sold in the States (1.4m are PS3), while only 300,000 HD DVD players were sold (and 150,000 are external drive for Xbox 360).

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[Don_HH2K]

Raw numbers such as these can be misleading in the case of the PS3 versus the Xbox 360. Remember that the PS3 comes with a Blu-ray player while the Xbox 360's is sold separately. It's safe to assume that everybody that bought an Xbox 360 HD-DVD drive is using it to watch HD-DVD movies, while the same can't be assumed for the PS3 with Blu-ray.

I'm going to be inaccurate for the sake of time and say that the same percentage of people play Blu-ray movies on their PS3s as those with Xbox 360s play HD-DVDs with their drives. According to Wikipedia, approximately 5.4 million Xbox 360s had been sold by May 18th, and CNet claims sales of about 155,000 drives. That means about 3% of all 360 owners wanted to watch HD-DVDs on their Xbox 360s.

By the same measure, if 3% of the PS3s sold in the United States (roughly 1.5 million of them), then roughly 45,000 are using the Blu-ray player.

Add in the remaining 100,000 standalone Blu-ray players sold, that works out to about 150,000 active Blu-ray players, versus 300,000 HD-DVD players.

Of course, this was guesswork, so who knows what's really going on in terms of who's using what.

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[Antony]

I pointed out the number of players consumers have. Which means they are capable to watch movies in such format.

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[Antony]

The battle of Blu-ray vs HD-DVD is not yet ended.

Paramount and DreamWorks previously support Blu-ray now jump the ship to ally with Microsoft on HD-DVD.

Paramount and DreamWorks Animation citied lower manufacturing costs of the HD DVD discs and lower prices for its players as reasons why deciding to go with the format.

source: Cnet News.com

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[Don_HH2K]

Has anybody heard about the new HD-VMD spec? They use the cheaper 650nm lasers found in current DVD players instead of the newer 405nm ones. So instead of packing in more storage through a smaller laser, they use four 5GB layers for 20GB of space.

On the video side, they currently can do 1080p24 at up to 40Mbps using either MPEG-2 or VC-1, though they haven't ruled out supporting H.264 in the near future. For audio they can take AC-3, E-AC-3, and DTS coding.

The best part is that, due to the cheaper components, the cheapest player runs at $150. It's not cheap, but it's certainly cheaper than HD-DVD and Blu-ray players.

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[Antony]

A bad news for HD-DVD. One major movie studio, Warner Brothers, has decided to switch to Blu-ray. (source: New York Times)

With Warner on board, Blu-ray now has about 70 percent of the market locked up; Walt Disney, 20th Century Fox, MGM, Lionsgate and, of course, Sony and Apple are all on Blu-ray’s team.

HD-DVD still have two major studios, Paramount Pictures and Universal Pictures. (Warner Bro will continue to release both formats until the end of May.)

Microsoft is siding with HD-DVD.

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