Changing OS from MS to Linux ??

[Silversheepz]

Hi all,

Noobie here ... I've just got myself a noo puta with MS XP on but i want to start using Linux as I am peeved at all the cash MS squeeze outa me with software and updates etc and all the crashes blah blah blah ...

I was just wondering if anyone had any advice as to what I should go for as there lots of different versions of linux and I am confused at which one would be best...

I'm a puta/internet user of about 10 years so am quite comfortable with most things and happy to try new things but would still like something easy to get into, i do alot of internet surfing, downloading muzik etc ... i'd like to use a word processor, spreadsheet and email client

Any advice is appreciated!

UserAgent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows 98; UK4Free.net; Hotbar 4.1.8.0; Crazy Browser 1.0.5)

[Don_HH2K]

I'd reccomend the latest version of Mandrake Linux, since it's directed towards new Linux users. It includes just about everything you'll need, like a word processor, spreadsheet application, e-mail client, web browser, music player, etc... Take a look at MandrakeLinux.com for more info.

UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040804 Netscape/7.2 (ax)

[Antony]

Please check [sdt=2755]Is linux right for you? Some tips on getting started.[/sdt] to get you started.

UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X; en) AppleWebKit/125.5 (KHTML, like Gecko) Safari/125.9

[Mandrake]

If you wanted Linux then why did you waste hundreds of dollars on Windows?

UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.8a5) Gecko/20041010 Firefox/0.9.1+

[DJGM]

Out of the commercial Linux distros, I'd say give SUSE a try. Current release is v9.1,
but, according to reports, v9.2 is due for release sometime next month. It's likely to
be available as a downloadable ISO file, or as a full boxed set. If you're new
to Linux, I would definitely recommend going for the boxed version.

UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040804 Netscape/7.2 - DJGM.co.uk (ax)

[Silversheepz]

and heres me thinking that Linux was still free ... whats happened? ... before I went travelling 2 years ago all the different versions of linux i saw were free, now i can't find a version that doesn't require some kind of subscription or payment ... suse, £60+ ... mandrake, $11 a month ....

I think i'll stick with XP and just use some different web browser and email programmes

UserAgent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows 98; UK4Free.net; Hotbar 4.1.8.0; Crazy Browser 1.0.5)

[DJGM]

Linux IS a free OS . . . provided you have a broadband internet connection to be
able to download a current or recent distro in a reasonable amount of time, and
a CD-ReWriter drive, so you can burn the ISO or ISOs on to CD-R discs.

If the commercial Linux makers such as SUSE and Mandrake are going to offer
downloadable copies of their distros for free, they have to charge for other
things such as technical support, otherwise they'd quickly go bankrupt.

Bear in mind, if you purchase a full boxed set Linux distro, the software you're
getting costs nothing. What you're paying for is the 30-90 days of technical
support, the packaging, and the plentiful supply of useful documentation.
With SUSE, the documentation usually comes in the form of at least one
guidebook containing about 300-400 pages. You definitely don't get
anything like that with a copy of Windows XP

There can be no way way of denying, that when you compare the cost of
buying a copy of Windows XP, and the cost of buying a commercial Linux,
distro, then Linux will usually give you far better value for money, since
it's much cheaper than buying a copy of Windows, and it usually comes
with lots of additional software packages at no extra cost.

A Linux distro will usually come with at least one office productivity suite,
such as OpenOffice and/or KOffice. If you want a copy of Microsoft Office
with your copy of Windows, then expect to pay more. A LOT more.

Also, with Linux, you're legally entitled to install the OS on as many PC's
as you wish. Try doing that with Windows, and you're breaking the law!

UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040804 Netscape/7.2 - DJGM.co.uk (ax)

[Thetargos]

comercial distros:

• General purpose/home use:
  
  • SuSE 9.1 Pro (if you can get it, otherwise Personal is just as fine).
  • Mandrake
  • Linspire (I actually hate this suckah, but it is really easy to use it if you're too used ot Windows).
• Wokrstation/Office/Development dekstops:
  
  • Xandros.
  • RHEL (I actually think this is one of the BEST there is in this department).
  • YellowDog (a PPC version) if you just gotta have/get a new and flaming with
• Servers (even though any distro can be a VERY good server)
  
  • RHEL Server
  • SuSE Server
  • TurboLinux
  • Mandrake Server
  • SGI & IBM servers (RH or SuSE, or proprietary, don't know)

Freely available distros:

• Fedora Core (My persnoal favorite)
• Debian [Woody, Sarge or Potato, AKA unstable, stable and old] (the personal favorite of many Die-Hard-Fans-From-Hell of Linux [j/k, you know I love you all users!!)
• Slackware (another one with a long tradition of fans)
• Knoppix (if you wanna try it off your CD or if you wanna install it)
• MEPIS (another LiveCD distro).
• The scary ones:
  
  • Gentoo (despite its reputation easy to install & use, easy to brake, hard to tweak it the right way)
  • Linux From Scratch.
  • Some other source based distro.

As you can see, there's plenty of where to look, and there's even more (around 1500 different distros world-wide) to choose from, these are just the most known. Check www.linuxiso.org and www.distrowatch.org for more info on the ones you'd like.

UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.7) Gecko/20040808 Firefox/0.9.3

[izanbardprince]

Linux IS a free OS . . . provided you have a broadband internet connection to be
able to download a current or recent distro in a reasonable amount of time, and
a CD-ReWriter drive, so you can burn the ISO or ISOs on to CD-R discs.

If the commercial Linux makers such as SUSE and Mandrake are going to offer
downloadable copies of their distros for free, they have to charge for other
things such as technical support, otherwise they'd quickly go bankrupt.

Bear in mind, if you purchase a full boxed set Linux distro, the software you're
getting costs nothing. What you're paying for is the 30-90 days of technical
support, the packaging, and the plentiful supply of useful documentation.
With SUSE, the documentation usually comes in the form of at least one
guidebook containing about 300-400 pages. You definitely don't get
anything like that with a copy of Windows XP

There can be no way way of denying, that when you compare the cost of
buying a copy of Windows XP, and the cost of buying a commercial Linux,
distro, then Linux will usually give you far better value for money, since
it's much cheaper than buying a copy of Windows, and it usually comes
with lots of additional software packages at no extra cost.

A Linux distro will usually come with at least one office productivity suite,
such as OpenOffice and/or KOffice. If you want a copy of Microsoft Office
with your copy of Windows, then expect to pay more. A LOT more.

Also, with Linux, you're legally entitled to install the OS on as many PC's
as you wish. Try doing that with Windows, and you're breaking the law!

There isn't a 500 ton manual that comes with Windows because it's fairly easy to figure out.

With Lunix, even the simplest functions require the most bizarre and strung out process in order to accomplish what you're trying to do.

Gaming is another area where Lunix suffers, you aren't going to find much beyond Tux Racer and Quake, certainly nothing like Halo or any other mainstream game, DOOM 3 is an exception but it requires such horribly expensive hardware, I'm not really going to call it a mainstream game, probably the reason they sold so many copies was because nobody expected it to run that poorly and it would be illegal for the store to take it back, this is getting off topic though.

Really, do you see a novice computer user trying to figure out how to even get Lunix installed, or would they rather just buy a PC thats ready to go?

Windows might not be close to perfect, but a product ultimately survives because of it's own merit, I don't see Lunix being painless enough for the average user, well, ever really, development efforts are sketchy and not well coordinated, there's really no clearly defined goals for it, or a time frame to get them done in, there's 20 different UI's you can install and learn, it's just horribly overcomplicated and patchy.

UserAgent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.1; SV1)

[izanbardprince]

Before I get flamed, I can definitely see how having Linux in a CORPORATE environment would save a company a load of money, but thats a different field entirely, there you have trained professionals setting it up and using it, not Uncle Bob that just wants to listen to his music or work with his photos.

UserAgent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.1; SV1)

[Thetargos]

There isn't a 500 ton manual that comes with Windows because it's fairly easy to figure out.

With Lunix, even the simplest functions require the most bizarre and strung out process in order to accomplish what you're trying to do.

Gaming is another area where Lunix suffers, you aren't going to find much beyond Tux Racer and Quake, certainly nothing like Halo or any other mainstream game, DOOM 3 is an exception but it requires such horribly expensive hardware, I'm not really going to call it a mainstream game, probably the reason they sold so many copies was because nobody expected it to run that poorly and it would be illegal for the store to take it back, this is getting off topic though.

Really, do you see a novice computer user trying to figure out how to even get Lunix installed, or would they rather just buy a PC thats ready to go?

Windows might not be close to perfect, but a product ultimately survives because of it's own merit, I don't see Lunix being painless enough for the average user, well, ever really, development efforts are sketchy and not well coordinated, there's really no clearly defined goals for it, or a time frame to get them done in, there's 20 different UI's you can install and learn, it's just horribly overcomplicated and patchy.

Before I get flamed, I can definitely see how having Linux in a CORPORATE environment would save a company a load of money, but thats a different field entirely, there you have trained professionals setting it up and using it, not Uncle Bob that just wants to listen to his music or work with his photos.

With these two comments (and I'm not saying anything beyond that) you've shown how much have you actually used a Linux system, I mean no offense, it is clear enough that you did not get one fundamental difference: Logic. Windows logic compared to Linux logic is quite different! depending on the distro you can apply some of the Windows logic to the Linux arena, but not always and deffinitely not in every situation. The same thing occurs the other way around, you can't use Linux logic in Windows-land... Even the two most GUI orietned OS's out there (Windows and MacOS) have their own fundamentally different logic in operation, even when MacOS X is based off a Unix system (pretty much like Linux is). Again many of the issues will depend on a number of factors:

• Distro used: Sad but true, there are more user friendly distros than others.
• What hardware you have: We ususally don't too much attention to this aspect, but I think this is the weakest and the strongest point on any OS. Here's the problem, not many [consumer] hardware manufacturers have Unix/Linux in mind, simply because they don't see a market in it, so they basically design their hardware around Windows. Since both OS run on the same architecture, it is still somewhat easy to port drivers from one OS to the other (though this usally means reverse-engineering Windows drivers for a given device (f.e nVidia network controller), some companies (video card chip manufacturers being pioneers in this field) do offer [varying] Linux support. Usually server oriented hardware manufacturers either give away their hw specs to the open source community guys, so they can make the drivers or they will provide them. And the main show-stopper for many potential Linux users is lack of HW support.
• The software support myth. There was a time when Linux applications were simply put, not what you see today... They were far less polished and even functional for everyday work. Since those days this legend has lingered with many users that seek out information about Linux and find that application-wise the system is not as robust as Windows or Mac. That has so dramatically changed in the last 6 years or so. It began with a better implementation of the graphical desktop (from KDE, GNOME, Fluxbox, etc) to the release of software masterpieces like Evolution 2.0, OpenOffice.org (based off Sun's StarOffice) and the Mozilla suit of applications (both SM 1.7.x and Firefox/Thunderbird). The number of very well done applications is growing and making your everyday experience quite enjoyable.

It is possible for a total n00b to feel comfortable with Linux without the need for the command line ever, and while here resides the true power of any Unix system, there have been strides towards good system-administration GUI applications or GUI frontends to popular command-line programs, so you can have the best of both worlds. I won't discuss or deny that one aspect of the system may be a pain for any well versed Windows user when they run Linus for the first time: Software installation. Again depending on the distribution you choose (or better said, the package management system you choose, since many of the most popular ones will seem too much alike from one-another), this can be tricky. I think one of the first questions a new Linux user has is: Ok, I just installed this OS, which is free and supposedly has tons of free software available... Now, where're the programs?!?!?!, pretty much any distribution has a way to fetch updates and install new software off the internet, like apt-get in debian-based system (also ported to other distributions, rpm distributions at that), yup/yum in YellowDog and Fedora Core, Synaptic/Yumi/Red Carpet/up2date (various front ends for these two other "protocols"), portage and emerge on Gentoo systems, etc. Basically these software fetching/installing systems work by providing addresses to servers with packages on them, and then they sync with the server's conents so the user can simply request to install X or Y program. Usually a simple google search will yield many results on software repositories (repos, for short). And while using these programs is a no brainer, you still have to take into account security... not every user will be able to install these packages unless they can have root (or Administrator's) access... Usually you can get this with a password prompt when you try to execute the program, if you know root's PW, you supply it, the program opens, you install your stuff, and that's pretty much it. With these new software management tools you will not need to worry about the [in]famous dependency hell Linux used to be.

Sorry for the long post...

UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.7.5) Gecko/20041111 Firefox/1.0

[izanbardprince]

From what I've seen, the only Linux OS thats appropriate for most desktops is Linspire.

UserAgent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.1; SV1)

[DJGM]

From what I've seen, the only Linux OS thats appropriate for most desktops is Linspire.

And from my experience, Linspire (formerly known as LindowsOS) is perhaps the worst example of a Linux
based operating system. For starters, the Linspire installer program doesn't give you the option to create
a normal user account, and by default you are given "root" access, which means you have complete and
total access to every single bit of the installed OS. Anyone with knowledge of how Linux and UNIX based
operating systems work will say that is extremely unwise. Using root on Linux or UNIX based OSes can
be extremely dangerous, as it leaves the whole system open to remote attack when online, and can
potentially render the entire operating system totally inoperable within a few clicks of the mouse.

Secondly, (IMHO) Linspire is just far too "sugar coated" to be taken seriously as a Linux distribution.
I applaud the fact they're trying to make a user friendly Linux distro, but I feel they've taken that
idea several steps too far, to the point where I would say that Linspire is really little more than
a "dumbed down" version of Linux, when compared with other user friendly distros.

From my experience of Linux, the best distros for general desktop use are SUSE and Mandrake, since
they have the best of both worlds. They're both user friendly enough for new Linux users, and they
both have more or less enough advanced stuff included to keep the hardcore Linux purists happy.

UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040804 Netscape/7.2 - DJGM.co.uk (ax)

[izanbardprince]

From what I've seen, the only Linux OS thats appropriate for most desktops is Linspire.

And from my experience, Linspire (formerly known as LindowsOS) is perhaps the worst example of a Linux
based operating system. For starters, the Linspire installer program doesn't give you the option to create
a normal user account, and by default you are given "root" access, which means you have complete and
total access to every single bit of the installed OS. Anyone with knowledge of how Linux and UNIX based
operating systems work will say that is extremely unwise. Using root on Linux or UNIX based OSes can
be extremely dangerous, as it leaves the whole system open to remote attack when online, and can
potentially render the entire operating system totally inoperable within a few clicks of the mouse.

Secondly, (IMHO) Linspire is just far too "sugar coated" to be taken seriously as a Linux distribution.
I applaud the fact they're trying to make a user friendly Linux distro, but I feel they've taken that
idea several steps too far, to the point where I would say that Linspire is really little more than
a "dumbed down" version of Linux, when compared with other user friendly distros.

From my experience of Linux, the best distros for general desktop use are SUSE and Mandrake, since
they have the best of both worlds. They're both user friendly enough for new Linux users, and they
both have more or less enough advanced stuff included to keep the hardcore Linux purists happy.

It doesn't do that anymore.

UserAgent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.1; SV1)

[Thetargos]

For me the best distro is still Fedora Core... It has everything I need, the way I like it and comes with a bunch of useful tools (admin tools) to make your life easier (just as YaST2 and *drake tools). I'm so pleased I have not had the need to look for another distro since I started using it from the FC1 days. Just my opinion.

UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.7.5) Gecko/20041111 Firefox/1.0