Macintosh Browser Smackdown

This section is for storing good and useful posts for referencing. This section is read only, if you have any questions, please ask in appropriate sections.

Macintosh Browser Smackdown

Postby Antony » Thu 28 Aug, 2003 7:51 am

In this Macintosh Browser Smackdown (by Eric Bangeman) (ArsTechnica)
The article started with something rather interesting...
Mac users were still second-class citizens when it came to surfing the web. There was OmniWeb 4.0 which had a beautiful rendering engine, but was slow, and Internet Explorer 5.1 which was rendered most pages accurately, but was slow. Soon, Mozilla joined the crowd. It was a large application with its own rendering engine, and it was . . . slow. Mac users had several slow web browsers to go with their slow OS.

And he mentioned that there were nine browsers to choose from, just nine.
MSIE as he mentioned...
Microsoft Internet Explorer 5.2.3. IE has mirrored the up-and-down relationship between Microsoft and Apple. Internet Explorer 4.0 and 4.5 were horrible on the Mac, but not long after Microsoft and Apple signed their 5-year truce, Internet Explorer 5.0 shipped for the Mac, and it was quickly (and deservedly) recognized as the premier browser for the Macintosh. However, while IE for Windows has seen two major revisions (5.5 and 6.0), the Mac version has been limited to minor updates and security fixes. IE 5.1 was one of the first two browsers ported to OS X, and is still included in OS X installs. It is a Carbon port of the Classic Mac OS version. Microsoft has recently announced the end of IE development for the Mac (as well as a standalone application for Windows). MSIE 5.2.3 is a free application.

What it said about Camino...
Camino 0.7 is a Mozilla offshoot touting itself as a "browser for Mac OS X with a Cocoa interface." It conforms rather well to the OS X GUI. While there are still nightly builds available, development on Camino (formerly Chimera) seems to have slowed considerably as 0.7 was released near the beginning of March 2003. Rumor has it that there are only one or two people still actively working on this project and its future development is in doubt as Firebird development progresses.

And Safari...
Safari 1.0 is Apple's own browser for machines running OS X 10.2. Its rendering engine is based on KHTML from KDE. Announced in January 2003, version 1.0 became available late last spring and it is rapidly becoming the most popular browser for Mac users.

The speed test chart showed that Camino is the fastest, followed by Mozilla 1.4, Firebird, then NS 7.1. Apple's Safari is not that fast at all.

For more detail, please read Macintosh Browser Smackdown (by Eric Bangeman) (ArsTechnica).
UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/85 (KHTML, like Gecko) Safari/85
Last edited by Antony on Mon 27 Oct, 2003 9:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Antony
diamond member
diamond member
 
Posts: 15298
Joined: Tue 18 Jun, 2002 11:36 pm
Location: Sydney, Australia

Postby Mandrake » Thu 28 Aug, 2003 10:00 am

Interesting . . . I remeber seeing some kind of comparison on Apple's site, proudly displaying Safari as quicker than IE for Mac, Netscape 7 for Mac and Camino.
UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624
Core i7 920 | ASUS P6T Deluxe v2 | 3TB+ HDD | 12GB Corsair DDR3 | Radeon 4890 Xfire | X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty | Logitech Z-5500 Speakers | Dell 3008WFP | Seven RC1
User avatar
Mandrake
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 4281
Joined: Fri 13 Sep, 2002 6:35 am

Postby Antony » Sat 30 Aug, 2003 10:52 pm

Mandrake wrote:Interesting . . . I remeber seeing some kind of comparison on Apple's site, proudly displaying Safari as quicker than IE for Mac, Netscape 7 for Mac and Camino.
Different webpages were selected.

(BTW, latest Camino nightly is based on Mozilla 1.5b)
UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030830 Camino/0.7+
User avatar
Antony
diamond member
diamond member
 
Posts: 15298
Joined: Tue 18 Jun, 2002 11:36 pm
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: Macintosh Browser Smackdown

Postby hartlandcat » Mon 01 Sep, 2003 9:36 am

Antony wrote:There was OmniWeb 4.0 which had a beautiful rendering engine

No... pre-4.5 versions of OmniWeb were horrendous. The user interface was beautiful though.
UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (Compact)
Mac OS X Panther :: iBook G4
My SF Site | My Browser Reference Chart
User avatar
hartlandcat
silver member
silver member
 
Posts: 239
Joined: Sat 08 Feb, 2003 8:51 am
Location: England

Postby Antony » Tue 11 Nov, 2003 2:25 am

Just to add a bit of my personal review.

Comparing Safari and latest Camino and Firebird.

Safari, a good and fast browser, fast to launch (in my slow Mac at least), beautiful user interface (of course, it's from the company that made the most friendly and easiest to use graphic user interface since early Mac OS). Beautiful display (main browser window)
Problem with Safari: a selective support of standards, same attitude as Opera? And the biggest problem... does not support the interlace of picture format (this is a serious problem for dial up users.

Camino, still not yet mature, still have quite a bit of work to do to catch up its sister product - Firebird (for Mac). However, it is definitely a good and sufficient tool for everyday usage.
The bad: slow start up. does not support sidebar, does not display webpages as pretty as in Safari, but good standard support. And the tooltips in the wrong position (sometimes). Not stable enough
Image

Firebird: A good browser with good standard support.
The bad: a bit slow to start up, has the same tooltip problem as in Camino.

What is the tooltip position problem? For example, the tooltip sometimes displayed on near top of the page when the link/image or whatever with Title attritude is located on the lower part of the page. This does not occur all the time.

Edited - added screenshot
UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6a) Gecko/20031018 Camino/0.7+ (MathML-Enabled)
Last edited by Antony on Thu 27 Nov, 2003 7:21 am, edited 2 times in total.
User avatar
Antony
diamond member
diamond member
 
Posts: 15298
Joined: Tue 18 Jun, 2002 11:36 pm
Location: Sydney, Australia

Postby Mandrake » Tue 11 Nov, 2003 7:02 am

Firebird is slow to load? I could only say that comparing it to K-Meleon, apart from that I've not seen a browser that loads as fast as Firebird.

As for the mac UI, I think the whole thing is a toy, rather than an OS. At least in XP I can throw out the toyish UI, and setup the classic interface from win2k and use my computer for it's intended purpose, as opposed to going "oooh!" to yet more annoying effects and other eye candy.
UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20031016 K-Meleon/0.8
User avatar
Mandrake
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 4281
Joined: Fri 13 Sep, 2002 6:35 am

Postby ryaxnb » Fri 19 Dec, 2003 2:16 am

Antony wrote:Just to add a bit of my personal review.

Comparing Safari and latest Camino and Firebird.

Safari, a good and fast browser, fast to launch (in my slow Mac at least), beautiful user interface (of course, it's from the company that made the most friendly and easiest to use graphic user interface since early Mac OS). Beautiful display (main browser window)
Problem with Safari: a selective support of standards, same attitude as Opera? And the biggest problem... does not support the interlace of picture format (this is a serious problem for dial up users.

Camino, still not yet mature, still have quite a bit of work to do to catch up its sister product - Firebird (for Mac). However, it is definitely a good and sufficient tool for everyday usage.
The bad: slow start up. does not support sidebar, does not display webpages as pretty as in Safari, but good standard support. And the tooltips in the wrong position (sometimes). Not stable enough
Image

Firebird: A good browser with good standard support.
The bad: a bit slow to start up, has the same tooltip problem as in Camino.

What is the tooltip position problem? For example, the tooltip sometimes displayed on near top of the page when the link/image or whatever with Title attritude is located on the lower part of the page. This does not occur all the time.

Edited - added screenshot

Safari? But Safari has near-full CSS1 support and large part of CSS2. Look at their own graphs, Safari is better then Tasman and only a little worse then Gecko. I think WebCore is an excellent rendering engine, and it's tiny compared to Gecko.
UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/103u (KHTML, like Gecko) Safari/100
Trainable is to cat as ability to live without food is to human.
ryaxnb
senior member
senior member
 
Posts: 92
Joined: Thu 13 Nov, 2003 2:07 am
Location: Felton, CA

Re: Macintosh Browser Smackdown

Postby ryaxnb » Fri 19 Dec, 2003 2:16 am

hartlandcat wrote:
Antony wrote:There was OmniWeb 4.0 which had a beautiful rendering engine

No... pre-4.5 versions of OmniWeb were horrendous. The user interface was beautiful though.

What he meant, I think, was that fuzzy antialiased text. (Which doesn't have anything to do with the rendering engine, actually.)
UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/103u (KHTML, like Gecko) Safari/100
Trainable is to cat as ability to live without food is to human.
ryaxnb
senior member
senior member
 
Posts: 92
Joined: Thu 13 Nov, 2003 2:07 am
Location: Felton, CA

Postby ryaxnb » Fri 19 Dec, 2003 2:18 am

Mandrake wrote:Firebird is slow to load? I could only say that comparing it to K-Meleon, apart from that I've not seen a browser that loads as fast as Firebird.

As for the mac UI, I think the whole thing is a toy, rather than an OS. At least in XP I can throw out the toyish UI, and setup the classic interface from win2k and use my computer for it's intended purpose, as opposed to going "oooh!" to yet more annoying effects and other eye candy.

Hello, you're annoying. The Mac UI is far less toyish then Luna. And who says you're stuck with Aqua? I'm running a boring-looking Rhapsodized theme right now, from maxthemes.com.
P.S. Safari frequently starts up faster then Firebird.
UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/103u (KHTML, like Gecko) Safari/100
Trainable is to cat as ability to live without food is to human.
ryaxnb
senior member
senior member
 
Posts: 92
Joined: Thu 13 Nov, 2003 2:07 am
Location: Felton, CA

Postby Mandrake » Fri 19 Dec, 2003 4:12 am

I don't know what kind of hardware you are using, but Firebird loads instantly for me. But I've never used Safari, so I can't and won't compare the loading speed. But you can't really get much faster than instantly, can you?
UserAgent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.0; APC)
User avatar
Mandrake
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 4281
Joined: Fri 13 Sep, 2002 6:35 am

Postby Antony » Fri 19 Dec, 2003 4:54 am

ryaxnb wrote:Hello, you're annoying. ...

Please refrain personal attack of any sort.
Post your points, evidences, or arguments. Any statements and opinions can be contested or challenged.
UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/85.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Safari/85.6
User avatar
Antony
diamond member
diamond member
 
Posts: 15298
Joined: Tue 18 Jun, 2002 11:36 pm
Location: Sydney, Australia

Postby ryaxnb » Sun 21 Dec, 2003 2:47 pm

Antony wrote:
ryaxnb wrote:Hello, you're annoying. ...

Please refrain personal attack of any sort.
Post your points, evidences, or arguments. Any statements and opinions can be contested or challenged.
Man, am I annoying. :wink: Sorry.
UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/103u (KHTML, like Gecko) Safari/100
Trainable is to cat as ability to live without food is to human.
ryaxnb
senior member
senior member
 
Posts: 92
Joined: Thu 13 Nov, 2003 2:07 am
Location: Felton, CA

Postby ryaxnb » Sun 21 Dec, 2003 2:49 pm

Mandrake wrote:I don't know what kind of hardware you are using, but Firebird loads instantly for me. But I've never used Safari, so I can't and won't compare the loading speed. But you can't really get much faster than instantly, can you?
I'm using Macs, and Macs seem to take longer to load Firebird then PCs.
iBook G3 900Mhz, 14", 256MB RAM, Mac OS X v10.3.
UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/103u (KHTML, like Gecko) Safari/100
Trainable is to cat as ability to live without food is to human.
ryaxnb
senior member
senior member
 
Posts: 92
Joined: Thu 13 Nov, 2003 2:07 am
Location: Felton, CA

Postby Don_HH2K » Sat 22 May, 2004 10:24 pm

Right now I'm using Netscape 3.04 on my old MacOS 7.1.3 machine. What was the last release that supported that old version of macOS?
UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax)
Laptop: HP Compaq nx6325 - Turion 64 X2 @ 2GHz, 2GB DDR2, 100GB HD, ATI Radeon X300, 15" LCD, Seven Pro
Handheld: Palm Treo 650 - Intel PXA270 @ 312MHz, 10MB RAM, 32MB flash, 2.7" LCD, Palm OS 5.4
User avatar
Don_HH2K
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 5112
Joined: Sun 09 May, 2004 3:59 pm

Postby Josh » Sun 23 May, 2004 2:34 pm

dluchini30 wrote:Right now I'm using Netscape 3.04 on my old MacOS 7.1.3 machine. What was the last release that supported that old version of macOS?


The last Netscape browser that supported 68k Macs and Win 3.1 was 4.08. It was released as a suite and a browser only product. See the main Sillydog site for download links.
UserAgent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.1)
Josh
SD701 Moderator
User of Safari 4.0.3 on :tiger:
User avatar
Josh
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 696
Joined: Fri 21 Jun, 2002 11:04 am

Next

Return to Reference Centre

Who is online

Registered users: Bing [Bot], Google [Bot], Majestic-12 [Bot], Yahoo [Bot]