SillyDog701

[richard mitnick]

James-

First, I completely support SeaMonkey. I even bought a hat, which sits at my desk for all to see, along with my FF hat, which does not fit (one size, and too small).I continue to believe that there is a reservoir of folks who we will never meet on these forums, simple folks who always used Netscape, the real Netscape, because it was a "feature complete" suite, mail, browser, etc.

I have actually run into tome of these folks on the SeaMonkey forums in Mozillazine Forums. You can tell by how they write, like when Mozilla Corp was about to kill off MozillaSuite and before SeaMonkey Council got going. I am not a techie, I just love browser stuff, and I like to interact with guys like you and Fulvio. But, I could tell just about what was their temperment.

At first, I was against FF, because I thought that it was like computer camp, something for techies who get off on screwing around with the guts of the software. Any time I went into the Mozillazine forums, they made me feel like an idiot. They actually said that MozillaSuite (in those days it was still the Mozilla Suite) was way more complex than FF and TBird. Well, sure, underneath. But not to simple folk who just want something that works.

As FF got more civilized (e.g., proper organization and management of bookmarks) I came on board with FF. But, then, every time they brought out an update, they broke something. So, I kept Mozilla browser ( I have never ever used a sujite myself, only the browser. I use Outlook and love it) as insurance.

I used SeaMonkey the same way for a time. I actually did have it as my default browser for a while.

Now, I keep an up-to-date .exe for Seamonkey, but I keep Netscape 9 as my insurance, since it is really FF.

I did try Opera a couple of times once it was free and without ads; but that wand business just turned me off.

>>RSM

UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.0; en-US; rv:1.8.1.4) Gecko/20070515 Firefox/2.0.0.4

[game1984]

and I'm the only one who didn't have a problem with Netscape 8, sure they're were some short comings but they addressed them

Netscape 8.1.3 is the most stable Netscape version to date, its fast and flexible, and the fusion theme is simply breath taking. Serious.

I was optimistic about the Netscape 9 project, I read how they were building an inhouse team again similar to what they had in Netcape 7, but after seeing the Netscape 9 beta I'm disgusted by the outcome. I was expecting something more of what Netscape 8 introduced with addition of the latest Firefox code and reintroduction of the Navigator Mail. Instead Netscape 9 looks like a crippled Firefox browser with cheap Netscape skin slapped on.

The dual engine code
Personal Bar
RSS feed
Spyware protection
and Site Controls are what made Netscape 8 a powerful browser, now it looks like they have progressed backward into the age of Netscape 3.

UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.5) Gecko/20070321 Netscape/8.1.3

[Somedude]

I agree with you about NS8, it's one of the best AOL-era NS releases out there, and I was quite content with it.

NS9 is just a reskin of Firefox with some other stuff added in.

~SD

UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.8.1.5) Gecko/20070713 Firefox/2.0.0.5

[Fulvio]

Dismissing the AOL-era Netscape6.0, there had been an improvement as one progressed to NS7.2, all based on some Mozilla. As far as I can concerned, NS8.x was an unmitigated disaster. After uninstalling it and reinstalling over 20 times because its Spyware protection definitions reverted to the year 1970, I gave up on it.
Sure, Navigator 9 is a reskinned firefox, just as the 7.2 and earlier NS were reskinned Mozillas. I cannot say anything good about 8.x, while 9 is not bothering me, at least.

UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.8.1.5) Gecko/20070713 Firefox/2.0.0.5

[James]

It's hard to put in words my frustration with Mozilla (if in fact, I've got the right target). There doesn't seem to be any logical game plan. It's so splintered that I can't see the point. SeaMonkey, Firefox, Navigator and Netscape. What is that all about? Opera is Opera. Microsoft's Internet Explorer remains, Internet Explorer. Netscape is broken up into what appears to be competing browsers. Why? It's as though they can't decide for themselves which direction is the correct one: standalone, suite? I wish they would make up their collective minds and then put ALL of their resources into that one direction and make it the best they possibly can. Navigator has a dozen devs. Big deal. It rides on the proverbial coat tails of Firefox and thus remains a step behind. And what on earth is the point of Navigator? I've wondered this from day one when I heard that AOL would be resurrecting the Navigator name. So now we hear that an e-mail client is in the works. Why? There's Thunderbird for crying out loud. Why another e-mail client that will be little more than a reskinned TB? It makes no sense. In fact, none of Mozilla's/AOL's/Netscape's moves have made much sense since it was purchased by AOL back in 98. It's just a jumble of competing programs.

UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.8.1.5) Gecko/20070713 Firefox/2.0.0.5

[Fulvio]

James,
it may be confusing to you, and many others, but it is not me. In first place Mozilla is not Netscape. Netscape is owned by AOL, which wants to continue the Netscape tradition, for whatever reason. So Navigator 9 and the upcoming mail client, based on Thunderbird, have an entirely different origin. Some people must have the name Netscape, so there it is. The Mozilla Corp. decided to go standalones, i.e. Firefox and Thunderbird. That is what they are developing. However, like there are people who must have the name Netscape, there are those who must a Suite, like the old Netscape 3-7. This is a splinter group effort. And, possibly, may lead to an upgrade of Netscape7.2, basing it on a recent Seamonkey.
There is no competition. Just, having Open Source, anyone may decide to develop a program.
They don't have to make their minds. The user must decide. If the Netscape name and/or logo turns them on, they will go toward Nav.9 and Mercury. But, if they abhor standalone, they will flock toward Seamonkey, hoping that, perhaps, it may morph into a Netscape suite.
I suppose that you have not heard of all the IE- based browsers, like Avant, and who knows how many others. Avant, by the way has features of all browsers, i.e. IE, Firefox and Opera.
It is up to you.

UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.8.1.5) Gecko/20070713 Firefox/2.0.0.5

[jsabarese]

For whomever was stating that "Opera is Opera", and mozilla and netscape are putting out competitive browsers, etc., i recommend you read the concise history of Netscape right here at your very own Sillydog! it details what you need to know about Codename Mozilla and how the whole thing went down. Quite interesting, really.

(stick with me here-- there's a point to this, i promise!)

So, the other day I took one of those meat thermometers and just stuck it right in my ear, and then i used one of those meat-tenderizer hammers... just started hammering it right down in there.
man, that really hurt!
but i just kept hammering it, ya know?
Man, I HATE it when that happens?!?!? †

okay-- kidding. but what i DID do was install XP fresh on a clean 120GB drive. and don't you hate it when that happens?

seriously-- i'm acting stupid, i know. but i wanted to get your attention about the idea of installing XP as being an "event"-- at least, sometimes-- depending on your mood perhaps. and it's sometimes it can be a rather stupid, pointless endeavor, depending upon reasons-- i.e. "what was wrong w/ your current XP system, ya dummy!? how many hours; days have you wasted on this?"

THE POINT is that i decided i would install ONLY Netscape Navigator 9 on this system. That's right-- well, and IE of course.

I'm normally one to end up having 12 different profiles in Seamonkey complete suite, versions 1.0.7, and 1.1.2, Firefox, both versions, Netscape, Opera, and -- well, you get the picture. of course each of those (Flock included) have about 10-too-many extensions loaded as well per profile. But not this time.

Having used the new Navigator, and was diggin' it on my "other" main system, i decided i'd give it the undivided attention i perceived it as deserving.

You're right though-- it's practically a clone of FF2, and one might say inferior for lack of addons support-- however, those of you who feel the same way will know what i mean when i say "That's not the point".

It's not whether you can't load XYZ extension because Navigator is playing catch-up, or that like any other Gecko based browser, you can't easily import settings, etc.-- it's about a browser being a good product out of the box-- and in that sense, i believe that Navigator 9 does excel-- perhaps even beyond Opera in terms of intuitive, unique goodies.

I sense i'd go on and on-- so let me just state the obvious. First and foremost-- you've got to imagine these things outside of your Del.icio.us add-ons; outside of the existence of Gmail; and so many other realities that-- had they not been there-- you might think twice about the way you've perceived the intuitive quality of Navigator 9.

THE LINKPAD
You could call it Netscape's answer to Opera's Speed Dial... or not. regardless, it's useful. Take back your Y! Del... bookmarks addon-- this thing is cool! give me 25 or so useful links, and i'll give you a days worth of wasted time. who needs 2025 stored in a social mechanism so tasty? oh-- i suppose it's version two of the internet, and the so-called social revolution we can not deny our lives of, no?

THE MINIBROWSER
this is the only "gecko" sidebar i've used which actually allows the copying of text from hypertext media loaded therein, AND also provides the option to choose whether links are opened in the main viewport, or the "sidebar" (i.e. the MiniBrowser) itself. Simple. Effective. Freedom from the .xpi!

UNDO CLOSE TAB
it's in there.

the list does go on, but it's less relevant, i believe, than the paradigm shift one must attempt to embrace in order to truly appreciate Navigator 9 for what it is. true, i have added xpi's to this mutha, but you know what-- it just makes the clean, oh so clean skin look all buggy (to lobby for the browser in light of the lacking of optional themes).

Navigator 9 isn't for everyone, indeed. but it's a nice browser-- straight out of the box. and ya know what, you can even get your new tabs button back in the tab-bar where you want it.

barring no "View Source With" addon-support, i've had no desire to install and go back to my old ways with SM, FF, and so on. hahaha-- we'll see how long it lasts! and so goes the story of a recovering browser junkie.

[tt]†
A not-verbatim reference to 1980's era Saturday Night Live skit featuring Billy Crystal. SNL is an NBC Television comedy.[/tt]

UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.8.1.5pre) Gecko/20070710 Firefox/2.0.0.4 Navigator/9.0b2