SillyDog701

[Lorraine]

The French government is pushing on with its proposed law to ban Islamic headscarves and other religious insignia in schools despite weekend demonstrations by angry Muslims decrying the "discrimination" against them.

Hundreds of protesters, many of them Muslim women hiding their hair under scarves, took to the streets of Paris, Marseille, Lyon, Lille and other French cities Saturday to again show their opposition to the law, which passed its first parliamentary hurdle last Tuesday.

The bill is now before the French senate, which is due to examine it on March 2.

Thus far, President Jacques Chirac and his centre-right government have taken little heed of the protests, which have shown some signs of petering out.

Nearly 70 percent of the country back the new law, according to polls, believing it upholds France's version of secularity, which calls for a strict separation of state and religion in public institutions.

In line with recommendations from a committee set up by Chirac, the law would prohibit Muslim headscarves, Jewish skull caps, large Christian crosses and other conspicuous religious ornamentation in state schools. The ban may also extend to beards and bandanas in some cases, if they are deemed to be religious in nature.

The legislation looks certain to sail through parliament and come into force in time for the start of the new school in September after Chirac's ruling UMP party won support from the opposition Socialists in return for a promise to review the measure's success after a year.

Source ©AFP=part

UserAgent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.1; .NET CLR 1.1.4322)

[Mandrake]

If they want to wear there headscarves and that sort of things, they should go to a Muslim-based private school.

UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113

[Antony]

In line with recommendations from a committee set up by Chirac, the law would prohibit Muslim headscarves, Jewish skull caps, large Christian crosses and other conspicuous religious ornamentation in state schools. The ban may also extend to beards and bandanas in some cases, if they are deemed to be religious in nature.

I believe all sorts of religion should be banned in schools, except religious school.

According to an Egyptian newspaper, , Egyptian Muslims Protest Proposed French Headscarf Ban. What's French movement to do with Egyptian Muslims?

[A 17-year-old Marwa Mohamed Aly] says wearing the veil is required by her religion, and there is no discussing it. She says banning it, or taking it off is just out of the question.

"Just out of the question" What? Just like there's no gays according to Islam?
If that's out of question, the decision in France is no of their business.

UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/85.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Safari/85.6

[Lorraine]

I agree that all religions should be banned in schools.
Even in private schools, religion should be banned, as everyone pays school tax and the equivalent amount for each student goes in a private school as well as a public school. The only difference, the parents have to pay a little more, from their own pockets for their child to attend a private school.

Whatever religion they belong to, they can give religious lessons, in their place of worship, on whatever day they like, probably Saturday or Sunday.

There are too many people with different religions these days.
What happens if each different religion wants religious studies in class?
All they would teach is religion all day.
I know they just want to wear head scarves, skull caps and crosses, but tomorrow what will they want?

They should just bring back school uniforms, they didn't harm me!

They should use the schools to teach the three R's, on second thought I had better spell it out, Reading, Writing and Arithmetic

People just don't seem to know how to spell anymore:)

UserAgent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.1; .NET CLR 1.1.4322)

[Antony]

Whatever religion they belong to, they can give religious lessons, in their place of worship, on whatever day they like, probably Saturday or Sunday.

Good idea, just you don't know much about Muslims (no offence). A number of Muslims aren't allowed to ead during a special month of year (can't remember what they call it)... that does not bother me; Some have to worship in particular times of the day... that is a bit too much I'd add, because some of them want to pray in business place, in the office etc.

(Edit, fixed spelling)

UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) (CK-SillyDog)

[Lorraine]

Yes, Antony. It is called Ramadan. Not sure if I spelled that right either. They fast all day and eat after sunset during Ramadan.
They worship five times a day on their little mat.
I have seen documentaries on Islam this past couple of years.
They like to have a special place to worship during working hours.
I imagine the same situation occurs in schools also.

I'm sure they have Gay & Lesbian people, still in the closet in Islam.

UserAgent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.1; .NET CLR 1.1.4322)

[Antony]

There's another report, Bill to ban Muslim headscarves in France draws controversy (Badger Herald, 18 Feb 2004)

According to recent public opinion polls, 70 percent of French citizens favor the ban. Forty-nine percent of Muslim women favor the ban, while 43 percent of men oppose it.
France currently leads all of Western Europe in Muslim population with 5 million, most of immigrant origin.
...
According to Muslim belief, headscarves are worn because Muslim women's hair should be kept out of sight from the view of men who are not related to them. Skullcaps, worn by dedicated Jewish men, signify constant reverence to God.

Nearly half of Muslim women, those who have to cover their hair, favour the ban! And near half of Muslim men prefer women to cover up. Interesting.

BTW, according to one of my friends, who happens to be Muslim, men and women have different duties. Let me translate it, (Muslim) women do not have equal rights as men.

They like to have a special place to worship during working hours.

That's really a bit too much in non-Muslim countries.

UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) (CK-SillyDog)

[Lorraine]

Well, I'm sure your country as well as mine and the U.S.A. practice
freedom of religion.
What makes a country Muslim? I would say if the majority of the occupants are Muslim.
There are several Muslim families that live in the city I live in.
They seem to be all over the place these days. But they are in the minority.
It has only been the past few years that I have seen women wearing the Hijab. Some even wear the long robes all the time, even when it's 100 F degrees in the shade.
I think they should have the right to practice their religion if they want as long as it isn't during school hours, but if the law says, no scarves, no crosses, no turbans, no skull caps, no kirpans or any other religious articles, it should be enforced.

I really don't like debating religion or politics.

UserAgent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.1; .NET CLR 1.1.4322)

[Antony]

I was told, Muslim men should not wear shorts. They shouldn't reveal their limbs. Why? That would be a sign of sexy I was told.
(so I exposed too much, according to Muslim code?)

Basically I believe people should have their freedom of religion. However, when the practice comes to conflict with national security, Security should be the first concern. (Back to last year's Drivers License Photo Dispute) Refuse to produce an identifiable identification is clearly not acceptable.

UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040206 Firefox/0.8

[Lorraine]

That is correct Antony. The reason I started this thread was because of the other thread about the driving license.

I say, Keep religion out of schools.

When in Rome, do as the Romans do!

UserAgent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.1; .NET CLR 1.1.4322)

[Lorraine]

Antony wrote:

I was told, Muslim men should not wear shorts. They shouldn't reveal their limbs. Why? That would be a sign of sexy I was told.
(so I exposed too much, according to Muslim code?)

Well, I wish that was true for most men. Never mind just the Muslim men.
The only men I ever saw that looked good in shorts was my husband and my son. They had beautiful legs and a lot of people told them too.
And that's the truth.

When we used to go to Fla. my hubby used to kid and watch the gals going by, some looked pretty good. One day he decided to take a walk, I said, I would stay and watch our belongings and look for a well built man:)
Very hard to find them in Florida.
I had my binoculars and lo and behold I saw a man about 1/2 a mile away. He looked like he had a great build, I had not seen any up until then.
I kept my binoculars on him, and what do you know, it was my husband.
I nearly died. Anyway, I was laughing when he arrived and told him I had picked him out away down the beach for what it's worth.



-Lorraine

UserAgent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.1; .NET CLR 1.1.4322)

[Antony]

The French parliament has passed a law to come into effect in September prohibiting conspicuous religious symbols in the classroom, including Islamic headscarves, Jewish skullcaps and large Christian crosses.
(from Expatica)

Now, my personal comment:
Excellent move, France.

To those who argue such ban is targeting Muslim:
No, it's not. They don't just ban Muslim's religious symbols. This is not any kind of discrimation at all. This is to help French schools and students unite together by removing the religious barriers.

UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) (CK-SillyDog)

[wolverine]

What primarily makes a country islamic is that the country operates under islamic law. Not all countries that are muslim follow islamic law for their government.

UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax)

[Antony]

Guardian reported Muslim pupil loses legal battle to wear jilbab (16 June 2004):

A 15-year-old [UK] Muslim girl yesterday lost her high court battle for the right to wear strict Islamic dress to school.
...
he school, a 1,000-pupil comprehensive where almost 80% of pupils are Muslim, said it had a flexible uniform policy to ensure that the religious and cultural sensitivities of its students were respected. Girls have the option of wearing trousers, skirts, or a shalwar kameez (trousers and a tunic).

UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X; en) AppleWebKit/125.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Safari/125.8