Macintosh Browser Smackdown

page 1, 2  next
You are here:  SillyDog701 > Message Centre > Reference Centre > [sdt=3000]
SillyDog701 Forums
Author Message
Antony
Site Admin


Joined: 18 Jun 2002
Posts: 12846
Location: Sydney, Australia
28 Aug, 2003 6:51 am Macintosh Browser Smackdown [sdp=16495]  

In this Macintosh Browser Smackdown (by Eric Bangeman) (ArsTechnica)
The article started with something rather interesting...
Mac users were still second-class citizens when it came to surfing the web. There was OmniWeb 4.0 which had a beautiful rendering engine, but was slow, and Internet Explorer 5.1 which was rendered most pages accurately, but was slow. Soon, Mozilla joined the crowd. It was a large application with its own rendering engine, and it was . . . slow. Mac users had several slow web browsers to go with their slow OS.

And he mentioned that there were nine browsers to choose from, just nine.
MSIE as he mentioned...
Microsoft Internet Explorer 5.2.3. IE has mirrored the up-and-down relationship between Microsoft and Apple. Internet Explorer 4.0 and 4.5 were horrible on the Mac, but not long after Microsoft and Apple signed their 5-year truce, Internet Explorer 5.0 shipped for the Mac, and it was quickly (and deservedly) recognized as the premier browser for the Macintosh. However, while IE for Windows has seen two major revisions (5.5 and 6.0), the Mac version has been limited to minor updates and security fixes. IE 5.1 was one of the first two browsers ported to OS X, and is still included in OS X installs. It is a Carbon port of the Classic Mac OS version. Microsoft has recently announced the end of IE development for the Mac (as well as a standalone application for Windows). MSIE 5.2.3 is a free application.

What it said about Camino...
Camino 0.7 is a Mozilla offshoot touting itself as a "browser for Mac OS X with a Cocoa interface." It conforms rather well to the OS X GUI. While there are still nightly builds available, development on Camino (formerly Chimera) seems to have slowed considerably as 0.7 was released near the beginning of March 2003. Rumor has it that there are only one or two people still actively working on this project and its future development is in doubt as Firebird development progresses.

And Safari...
Safari 1.0 is Apple's own browser for machines running OS X 10.2. Its rendering engine is based on KHTML from KDE. Announced in January 2003, version 1.0 became available late last spring and it is rapidly becoming the most popular browser for Mac users.

The speed test chart showed that Camino is the fastest, followed by Mozilla 1.4, Firebird, then NS 7.1. Apple's Safari is not that fast at all.

For more detail, please read Macintosh Browser Smackdown (by Eric Bangeman) (ArsTechnica).

UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/85 (KHTML, like Gecko) Safari/85


Last edited by Antony on 27 Oct, 2003 8:24 am; edited once(1)
Back to top profile website
Mandrake
Moderator


Joined: 13 Sep 2002
Posts: 3920
28 Aug, 2003 9:00 am [sdp=16499]  

Interesting . . . I remeber seeing some kind of comparison on Apple's site, proudly displaying Safari as quicker than IE for Mac, Netscape 7 for Mac and Camino.

UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624

Core i7 920 | ASUS P6T Deluxe v2 | 3TB+ HDD | 12GB Corsair DDR3 | Radeon 4890 Xfire | X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty | Logitech Z-5500 Speakers | Dell 3008WFP | Seven RC1
Back to top profile
Antony
Site Admin


Joined: 18 Jun 2002
Posts: 12846
Location: Sydney, Australia
30 Aug, 2003 9:52 pm [sdp=16666]  

Mandrake wrote:
Interesting . . . I remeber seeing some kind of comparison on Apple's site, proudly displaying Safari as quicker than IE for Mac, Netscape 7 for Mac and Camino.
Different webpages were selected.

(BTW, latest Camino nightly is based on Mozilla 1.5b)

UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030830 Camino/0.7+

Back to top profile website
hartlandcat
silver member


Joined: 08 Feb 2003
Posts: 239
Location: England
01 Sep, 2003 8:36 am Re: Macintosh Browser Smackdown [sdp=16727]  

Antony wrote:
There was OmniWeb 4.0 which had a beautiful rendering engine

No... pre-4.5 versions of OmniWeb were horrendous. The user interface was beautiful though.

UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (Compact)

Mac OS X Panther :: iBook G4
My SF Site | My Browser Reference Chart
Back to top profile website
Antony
Site Admin


Joined: 18 Jun 2002
Posts: 12846
Location: Sydney, Australia
11 Nov, 2003 1:25 am [sdp=20552]  

Just to add a bit of my personal review.

Comparing Safari and latest Camino and Firebird.

Safari, a good and fast browser, fast to launch (in my slow Mac at least), beautiful user interface (of course, it's from the company that made the most friendly and easiest to use graphic user interface since early Mac OS). Beautiful display (main browser window)
Problem with Safari: a selective support of standards, same attitude as Opera? And the biggest problem... does not support the interlace of picture format (this is a serious problem for dial up users.

Camino, still not yet mature, still have quite a bit of work to do to catch up its sister product - Firebird (for Mac). However, it is definitely a good and sufficient tool for everyday usage.
The bad: slow start up. does not support sidebar, does not display webpages as pretty as in Safari, but good standard support. And the tooltips in the wrong position (sometimes). Not stable enough


Firebird: A good browser with good standard support.
The bad: a bit slow to start up, has the same tooltip problem as in Camino.

What is the tooltip position problem? For example, the tooltip sometimes displayed on near top of the page when the link/image or whatever with Title attritude is located on the lower part of the page. This does not occur all the time.

Edited - added screenshot

UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6a) Gecko/20031018 Camino/0.7+ (MathML-Enabled)


Last edited by Antony on 27 Nov, 2003 6:21 am; edited 2 times in total
Back to top profile website
Mandrake
Moderator


Joined: 13 Sep 2002
Posts: 3920
11 Nov, 2003 6:02 am [sdp=20558]  

Firebird is slow to load? I could only say that comparing it to K-Meleon, apart from that I've not seen a browser that loads as fast as Firebird.

As for the mac UI, I think the whole thing is a toy, rather than an OS. At least in XP I can throw out the toyish UI, and setup the classic interface from win2k and use my computer for it's intended purpose, as opposed to going "oooh!" to yet more annoying effects and other eye candy.

UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20031016 K-Meleon/0.8
Back to top profile
ryaxnb
senior member

Ryan
Joined: 13 Nov 2003
Posts: 92
Location: Felton, CA
19 Dec, 2003 1:16 am [sdp=23380]  

Antony wrote:
Just to add a bit of my personal review.

Comparing Safari and latest Camino and Firebird.

Safari, a good and fast browser, fast to launch (in my slow Mac at least), beautiful user interface (of course, it's from the company that made the most friendly and easiest to use graphic user interface since early Mac OS). Beautiful display (main browser window)
Problem with Safari: a selective support of standards, same attitude as Opera? And the biggest problem... does not support the interlace of picture format (this is a serious problem for dial up users.

Camino, still not yet mature, still have quite a bit of work to do to catch up its sister product - Firebird (for Mac). However, it is definitely a good and sufficient tool for everyday usage.
The bad: slow start up. does not support sidebar, does not display webpages as pretty as in Safari, but good standard support. And the tooltips in the wrong position (sometimes). Not stable enough


Firebird: A good browser with good standard support.
The bad: a bit slow to start up, has the same tooltip problem as in Camino.

What is the tooltip position problem? For example, the tooltip sometimes displayed on near top of the page when the link/image or whatever with Title attritude is located on the lower part of the page. This does not occur all the time.

Edited - added screenshot

Safari? But Safari has near-full CSS1 support and large part of CSS2. Look at their own graphs, Safari is better then Tasman and only a little worse then Gecko. I think WebCore is an excellent rendering engine, and it's tiny compared to Gecko.

UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/103u (KHTML, like Gecko) Safari/100

Trainable is to cat as ability to live without food is to human.
Back to top profile
ryaxnb
senior member

Ryan
Joined: 13 Nov 2003
Posts: 92
Location: Felton, CA
19 Dec, 2003 1:16 am Re: Macintosh Browser Smackdown [sdp=23381]  

hartlandcat wrote:
Antony wrote:
There was OmniWeb 4.0 which had a beautiful rendering engine

No... pre-4.5 versions of OmniWeb were horrendous. The user interface was beautiful though.

What he meant, I think, was that fuzzy antialiased text. (Which doesn't have anything to do with the rendering engine, actually.)

UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/103u (KHTML, like Gecko) Safari/100

Trainable is to cat as ability to live without food is to human.
Back to top profile
ryaxnb
senior member

Ryan
Joined: 13 Nov 2003
Posts: 92
Location: Felton, CA
19 Dec, 2003 1:18 am [sdp=23382]  

Mandrake wrote:
Firebird is slow to load? I could only say that comparing it to K-Meleon, apart from that I've not seen a browser that loads as fast as Firebird.

As for the mac UI, I think the whole thing is a toy, rather than an OS. At least in XP I can throw out the toyish UI, and setup the classic interface from win2k and use my computer for it's intended purpose, as opposed to going "oooh!" to yet more annoying effects and other eye candy.

Hello, you're annoying. The Mac UI is far less toyish then Luna. And who says you're stuck with Aqua? I'm running a boring-looking Rhapsodized theme right now, from maxthemes.com.
P.S. Safari frequently starts up faster then Firebird.

UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/103u (KHTML, like Gecko) Safari/100

Trainable is to cat as ability to live without food is to human.
Back to top profile
Mandrake
Moderator


Joined: 13 Sep 2002
Posts: 3920
19 Dec, 2003 3:12 am [sdp=23389]  

I don't know what kind of hardware you are using, but Firebird loads instantly for me. But I've never used Safari, so I can't and won't compare the loading speed. But you can't really get much faster than instantly, can you?

UserAgent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.0; APC)
Back to top profile
Antony
Site Admin


Joined: 18 Jun 2002
Posts: 12846
Location: Sydney, Australia
19 Dec, 2003 3:54 am [sdp=23392]  

ryaxnb wrote:
Hello, you're annoying. ...

Please refrain personal attack of any sort.
Post your points, evidences, or arguments. Any statements and opinions can be contested or challenged.

UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/85.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Safari/85.6

Back to top profile website
ryaxnb
senior member

Ryan
Joined: 13 Nov 2003
Posts: 92
Location: Felton, CA
21 Dec, 2003 1:47 pm [sdp=23513]  

Antony wrote:
ryaxnb wrote:
Hello, you're annoying. ...

Please refrain personal attack of any sort.
Post your points, evidences, or arguments. Any statements and opinions can be contested or challenged.
Man, am I annoying. Wink Sorry.

UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/103u (KHTML, like Gecko) Safari/100

Trainable is to cat as ability to live without food is to human.
Back to top profile
ryaxnb
senior member

Ryan
Joined: 13 Nov 2003
Posts: 92
Location: Felton, CA
21 Dec, 2003 1:49 pm [sdp=23514]  

Mandrake wrote:
I don't know what kind of hardware you are using, but Firebird loads instantly for me. But I've never used Safari, so I can't and won't compare the loading speed. But you can't really get much faster than instantly, can you?
I'm using Macs, and Macs seem to take longer to load Firebird then PCs.
iBook G3 900Mhz, 14", 256MB RAM, Mac OS X v10.3.

UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/103u (KHTML, like Gecko) Safari/100

Trainable is to cat as ability to live without food is to human.
Back to top profile
Don_HH2K
Moderator


Joined: 09 May 2004
Posts: 4792
22 May, 2004 9:24 pm [sdp=33320]  

Right now I'm using Netscape 3.04 on my old MacOS 7.1.3 machine. What was the last release that supported that old version of macOS?

UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax)

Laptop: Turion 64 X2 @ 2GHz, 2GB DDR2-667, 100GB HD, ATI Radeon X300, 15" LCD, Seven Professional RTM
Back to top profile website
Josh
Moderator


Joined: 21 Jun 2002
Posts: 691
23 May, 2004 1:34 pm [sdp=33355]  

dluchini30 wrote:
Right now I'm using Netscape 3.04 on my old MacOS 7.1.3 machine. What was the last release that supported that old version of macOS?


The last Netscape browser that supported 68k Macs and Win 3.1 was 4.08. It was released as a suite and a browser only product. See the main Sillydog site for download links.

UserAgent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.1)

Josh
SD701 Moderator
User of Safari 4.0.3 on Tiger
Back to top profile website
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Forum Index > Reference Centre All times are CST (GMT -6)
page 1 of 2 page 1, 2  next
To add your questions, comments, and for more features and more, please join SillyDog701 Message Centre. It's free! This is SillyDog 701 Message Centre (SD701 Forums).

iTunes Movie Rentals iTunes

*Search | FAQ | Rules and Policies | MozInfo701 - Mozilla Information Centre | SD701 Open Directory | Message Board Map | download Netscape