Urgent: US Citizens Protect Your Constitutional Right

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Urgent: US Citizens Protect Your Constitutional Right

Postby iJohnE » Fri 01 Oct, 2010 5:12 pm

For those of you who don't know, the US Congress has recently passed a bill that would force US citizens into internet censorship greater then or equal to China. This bill gives the government the right to ban anything on the internet for no reason what so ever. The right to do so without a warrant, and without a court hearing. Once something is banned, it cannot be unbanned. This could propose a direct violation to the first amendment for the freedom of speech, press and religion. Anything could be banned.

For example: I post something on one of my blogs, stating an opinion, a negative opinion of the US government, my site, can be shut down, permanently. Without a warning, without just cause, and without application for repeal.

This is a disgusting bill, and something that doesn't make me proud to be an American.

For more info you can read this: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-seg ... 39836.html

And to sign a petition, against this bill go here: http://demandprogress.org/blacklist/

To write to your senator, visit here: https://secure.eff.org/site/Advocacy?cm ... ion&id=455

I want your thoughts and opinions on this. Do you think this is right?
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Re: Urgent: US Citizens Protect Your Constitutional Right

Postby Mandrake » Sat 02 Oct, 2010 12:09 am

This is even worse than the internet filter that Minister Conroy wants to introduce here. It's utterly appalling that this could happen in any western democracy. It really is along the same lines of what they do in places like Iran and China.

For the US government to claim that the internet must be kept open and free, then to suddenly do a backflip with this proposal is utterly disgusting!
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Re: Urgent: US Citizens Protect Your Constitutional Right

Postby iJohnE » Sat 02 Oct, 2010 10:53 am

Indeed! Talk about hypocritical.

I find it amazing really, that things like this would happen. And on top of amazing, I find it utter b#llsh#t.
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Re: Urgent: US Citizens Protect Your Constitutional Right

Postby Antony » Sat 02 Oct, 2010 10:58 am

iJohnE wrote:Indeed! Talk about hypocritical.

I find it amazing really, that things like this would happen. And on top of amazing, I find it utter b#llsh#t.


Welcome to the real world, lots of hypocritical and many unbelievablecan happen.
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Re: Urgent: US Citizens Protect Your Constitutional Right

Postby iJohnE » Sat 02 Oct, 2010 11:06 am

I can understand an internet filter/firewall in places like Schools, and work places. But not really to then general public.

I mean, yes, it would cut down on pirating (takes off eye patch), but it would also be rather destructive to the internet.
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Re: Urgent: US Citizens Protect Your Constitutional Right

Postby Antony » Sun 03 Oct, 2010 8:16 pm

Sorry that I was away, and I did not really follow the story. Just to get the story right, am I correct on that President Obama vows to have free and open Internet, but the powerful US Congress decided to go other way?

iJohnE wrote:To write to your senator, visit here: https://secure.eff.org/site/Advocacy?cm ... ion&id=455


It is usually a bit pointless to write to Senators (or MPs), the best way is simply vote them off!
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Re: Urgent: US Citizens Protect Your Constitutional Right

Postby iJohnE » Sun 03 Oct, 2010 9:17 pm

While I have to agree with you, that it's more powerful to vote them off, in this case that wouldn't do much good. As the time period in which we get to vote for our senators isn't soon enough. As this bill would be passed by then.

Yes, Obama said that the internet should be free and open, however he in turn may be signing on the bill!
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Re: Urgent: US Citizens Protect Your Constitutional Right

Postby Antony » Mon 04 Oct, 2010 5:57 am

iJohnE wrote:Yes, Obama said that the internet should be free and open, however he in turn may be signing on the bill!

He has to respect the decisions from the senators, whether he likes or disagrees with the decisions is another matter.
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Re: Urgent: US Citizens Protect Your Constitutional Right

Postby iJohnE » Mon 04 Oct, 2010 3:28 pm

Here's the thing, while he may respect their opinion he, as the American president, has the right to vote differently, or even Veto the bill all together.
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Re: Urgent: US Citizens Protect Your Constitutional Right

Postby Mandrake » Tue 05 Oct, 2010 12:37 am

iJohnE wrote:Here's the thing, while he may respect their opinion he, as the American president, has the right to vote differently, or even Veto the bill all together.


One man can prevent laws from being passed?

Here the Prime Minister doesn't have that much power. All of Australia is split up into electorates of roughly the same number of people. In the federal election we vote for a particular political party in our electorate and the candidate with the most votes is elected as the MP for that electorate. This is done in a preference style. If there are five candidates in an electorate then our first preference is voted '1' and the others are ranked 2 -> 5.

There are 150 MPs elected to the house of representatives, representing those electorates. This is also known as the 'lower house'. The first step in getting something bought in (ISP filtering for instance) is getting it passed through the house of representatives. This is done by a vote, a majority is required to have it pass the house. Usually this is a mere formality, since the government generally has a majority. Due to the hung parliament situation we ended up with an interesting scenario. The two main political parties (Labor and the Lib/Nat Coalition) both ended up with 72 seats. In the end Labor was able to form a minority government by convincing the one Green MP and three independents to follow them in exchange for a bunch of promises and commitments. The other independent along with the WA Nationals MP supported The Coalition. That theoretically gives Labor 76 seats vs 74 for the Coalition. One Labor MP has to be speaker of the house, reducing Labor's majority to 75 vs 74. Add to that the fact that the Green MP and independents that sided with Labor are under no obligation to vote in support of Labor for policies like ISP filtering. It gets very interesting because anything can and will happen in this term of government. Something normally trivial like a by-election or a single independent changing their allegiance could collapse the government or force a change in government.

If something passes the house of reps then it's sent to the Senate where it again has to be voted on by the various Senators. We vote for the Senate too, but that's more complicated. Google can help you understand that if you want to. The balance of power in the senate is currently held by the Greens (5 senators), independent Nick Xenophon and Steve Fielding from Family First. If the Coalition decide to support Labor in the senate then the support of the 'balance of power' is not needed. From July next year when the new Senate is bought in (from the last election) the Greens will hold the balance of power with 9 senators. If the ISP filtering legislation passed the house of reps then the senate, then it would be law from that point on.

If I've made any mistakes then anyone should feel free to correct me, I'm not a politician by any stretch of the imagination.
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Re: Urgent: US Citizens Protect Your Constitutional Right

Postby Antony » Tue 05 Oct, 2010 7:03 am

iJohnE wrote:Here's the thing, while he may respect their opinion he, as the American president, has the right to vote differently, or even Veto the bill all together.

To best of my understanding of US policies and laws, it is extremely unlikely that the US President would simply choose to ignore the decision by the Congress. He might ask the Congress to re-consider the decision.
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Re: Urgent: US Citizens Protect Your Constitutional Right

Postby iJohnE » Tue 05 Oct, 2010 3:03 pm

Here is how the U.S. Government is setup.

We have three branches, the Legislative, Judicial and Executive.

The Legislative branch:

• Is also known as Congress.
• The legislative branch, or Congress makes all the laws.
• Only Congress can declare martial law. Federal executive orders are not constitutional as they are executive, not legislative.
• They control all the money; taxes, borrows, and sets the budget (with exception of inappropriate spending by central bank).
• They have the sole power to declare war.
• Oversees, investigates, and makes the rules for the government and its officers.
• Confirms the heads of the executive branch.
• Confirms federal judicial appointments, and defines by law the jurisdiction of the judicial branch in cases not specified by the Constitution.
• Ratifies treaties.
• Originates and tries cases of impeachment.

The Executive branch:

• Is also known as the President.
• Preserves, protects and defends the Constitution.
• Faithfully executes the laws of the Country.
• Executes the instructions of Congress.
May veto laws (but the veto may be overridden by Congress by a 2/3 majority) or refuse to execute them if she/he deems them unconstitutional. This is key!
• Executes the spending authorized by Congress.
• Executes the instructions of Congress when it declares war or makes rules for the military.
• Declares states of emergency and publishes regulations and executive orders.
• Creates treaties, and appoints judges and other executive heads, both with the advice and consent of the Senate.
• Has the power to grant pardons for crimes against the United States.
• Has the power to put flags at half staff.
•Is the commander in chief of the armed forces.

The Judicial branch:

• Determines which laws Congress intended to apply to any given case
• Determines whether a law is unconstitutional
• Determines how Congress meant the law to apply to disputes
• Determines how a law acts to determine the disposition of prisoners
• Determines how a law acts to compel testimony and the production of evidence
• Determines how laws should be interpreted to assure uniform policies in a top-down fashion via the appeals process, but gives discretion in individual cases to low-level judges. (The amount of discretion depends upon the standard of review, determined by the type of case in question.)
• Polices its own members
• Is never immune to arbitrary dismissal by Congress through impeachment proceedings

The president has the right to veto a bill if he doesn't agree with it. Which means that two thirds of Congress, which is filled up by the house of representatives (100 people, 2 from each of the fifty states) and the senate. So if we were to write to our state reps, and assuming the agree with us, and want to please and protect their people, then we could get this thing blown out of the water.

And since this law clearly has the ability to become unconstitutional rather quickly, I will be very surprised to see Obama sign it.
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Re: Urgent: US Citizens Protect Your Constitutional Right

Postby Antony » Wed 06 Oct, 2010 9:05 am

Thank you for the US Government system.

Like I mentioned, the President cannot simply disrespect the decision by the Congress, even if he could. Ignoring the decisions of the Congress should not be performed lightly.
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Re: Urgent: US Citizens Protect Your Constitutional Right

Postby iJohnE » Wed 06 Oct, 2010 2:05 pm

Antony wrote:Thank you for the US Government system.

Like I mentioned, the President cannot simply disrespect the decision by the Congress, even if he could. Ignoring the decisions of the Congress should not be performed lightly.


While he can't just blatantly disregard it, he does have to option to if he so feels, or if evidence of violating the constitution.
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