Edited by Andrew T. (27-10-2004); Firefox version number corrected to prevent confusion.
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Unrequested page opens when FF1.0pr is closed
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Unrequested page opens when FF1.0pr is closed
by Fulvio » Mon 20 Sep, 2004 12:22 am
I thought, first, that it was a popunder, but it is not, and I find this only with FF1.0pr, not FF0.9.3, nor any other browser. Has anyone experienced this? Or something similar?
Edited by Andrew T. (27-10-2004); Firefox version number corrected to prevent confusion.
Edited by Andrew T. (27-10-2004); Firefox version number corrected to prevent confusion.
A minority may be right, and a majority is always wrong
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Re: Unrequested page opens when FF1.0rc1 is closed
by Antony » Mon 20 Sep, 2004 12:44 am
Is that the page being opened? OR the page when you close it and it would open a new window?Fulvio wrote: Has anyone experienced this? Or something similar?
If that's the page being opened, it must have been opened sometime before, but instead of pop-up, it pop-down.
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by Fulvio » Mon 20 Sep, 2004 11:26 am
Antony,
I don't know about pop-downs. Never heard that term. To me pop-unders are opened under the main page, and show up on the Quick Launch toolbar, so I have two windows open, independent of each other.. In this case I have only one window open with the program, when I close the program, another window appears. That's the one I was referring to.
FF0.9.3, Netscape and Mozillas do not show this. Any way a pop-under is: http://www.popunder.com/example.html
I did a search for pop-down, and it seems to be a program, for IE, to shutdown popups. Other definitions do not make too much sense.
Additionally, I find an ar.atwola.com cookie, called "badsnm". Deleting the cookie does not make any difference for the appearance of the pop something. The cookie is right back. I also had the cookies ask me, and deny permission to that cookie. There were two attempts, and the first one brought up a blank window, but it did not bother the next one. I have seen enough of that ad, in at least three different form, and have enough of this build.
But, I would like to know if any other user of FF has seen this.
I don't know about pop-downs. Never heard that term. To me pop-unders are opened under the main page, and show up on the Quick Launch toolbar, so I have two windows open, independent of each other.. In this case I have only one window open with the program, when I close the program, another window appears. That's the one I was referring to.
FF0.9.3, Netscape and Mozillas do not show this. Any way a pop-under is: http://www.popunder.com/example.html
I did a search for pop-down, and it seems to be a program, for IE, to shutdown popups. Other definitions do not make too much sense.
Additionally, I find an ar.atwola.com cookie, called "badsnm". Deleting the cookie does not make any difference for the appearance of the pop something. The cookie is right back. I also had the cookies ask me, and deny permission to that cookie. There were two attempts, and the first one brought up a blank window, but it did not bother the next one. I have seen enough of that ad, in at least three different form, and have enough of this build.
But, I would like to know if any other user of FF has seen this.
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~ Henrik Ibsen
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by akbash » Mon 20 Sep, 2004 3:01 pm
Popup windows, popunder windows; all the same thing to me. Disregarding the fact I don't know what a popdown is, when I say that the popup blocker was completely rewritten in FF 0.10 PR1 I mean the code that affects all that stuff. It's generally much stronger than the popup blocker in 0.9 but 0.10PR1 shipped with a weakness that 0.9 didn't have; it's easier to open a popup as the window is closing.
That could be what you're seeing. But you make it sound like the advertising pop/up/under/down/thing always happens. If the cause is what I just outlined, it should only happen when closing a particular site that attempts to open the popup; not just any site. Though of course if it's a popunder you may not have noticed until well after the fact.
The weakness by the way is fixed in recent nightly builds.
That could be what you're seeing. But you make it sound like the advertising pop/up/under/down/thing always happens. If the cause is what I just outlined, it should only happen when closing a particular site that attempts to open the popup; not just any site. Though of course if it's a popunder you may not have noticed until well after the fact.
The weakness by the way is fixed in recent nightly builds.
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9-21 update
by Fulvio » Mon 20 Sep, 2004 3:20 pm
I have no idea what that popsomething may be associated with. It is some kind of AOL thing.I checked the nightlies, but how can I associated a FF0.9.1+ with FF1.0. It could mean anything
I posted at Mozillazine, I think, but I could not get in for an entire day, so, with the zillion of post, who knows? I tried two tricks, one was to delete the Cookie item, and select to not allow to be reentered. The original cookie was for atwola.com, although the pop thing is . The atwola line did not return, but the popunder did. It seems to just open a page after close FF. The other trick was to select to direct only to the original site. I believe that I opened and close FF about 10 times, and the ad never failed to appear. If I am the only one, I would like to know why, but I have no use for this build.
I have even set to block the cookies.
I posted at Mozillazine, I think, but I could not get in for an entire day, so, with the zillion of post, who knows? I tried two tricks, one was to delete the Cookie item, and select to not allow to be reentered. The original cookie was for atwola.com, although the pop thing is . The atwola line did not return, but the popunder did. It seems to just open a page after close FF. The other trick was to select to direct only to the original site. I believe that I opened and close FF about 10 times, and the ad never failed to appear. If I am the only one, I would like to know why, but I have no use for this build.
I have even set to block the cookies.
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~ Henrik Ibsen
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~ Henrik Ibsen
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by Fulvio » Thu 23 Sep, 2004 1:01 am
I solved the problem, no thanks to anyone. After looking at the secnews, firefird newsgroup, I notice that some people recommended different profiles for 0.9.3 and 1.0, and also the Tabbrowser extention was used.
I never got any extention for Tabs, but I was saving the Tabs from the originating program, i.e. 1.7.3. So, I created a new profile, and no problem. Then I imported the bookmarks file from 1.7.3, still no problem. Then I clicked on Tabs file of 1.7.3, which I had saved, and enter the websites to be saved, and Bang! I got the monster. I settled for one site as Home Page, and it is ok. Still it is good to have different profiles, so that I can use my tabs in 0.9.3. May be someone was specific about the fact that Tabs should not be saved in 1.0, but this is a regression, which I don't appreciate.
And, no wonder that I was alone in having such problem, if others do not save Tabs.
I removed all tabs, and reentered them, one at a time, and saved each time. And, so far no problem.
I never got any extention for Tabs, but I was saving the Tabs from the originating program, i.e. 1.7.3. So, I created a new profile, and no problem. Then I imported the bookmarks file from 1.7.3, still no problem. Then I clicked on Tabs file of 1.7.3, which I had saved, and enter the websites to be saved, and Bang! I got the monster. I settled for one site as Home Page, and it is ok. Still it is good to have different profiles, so that I can use my tabs in 0.9.3. May be someone was specific about the fact that Tabs should not be saved in 1.0, but this is a regression, which I don't appreciate.
And, no wonder that I was alone in having such problem, if others do not save Tabs.
I removed all tabs, and reentered them, one at a time, and saved each time. And, so far no problem.
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Last edited by Fulvio on Fri 24 Sep, 2004 9:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
A minority may be right, and a majority is always wrong
~ Henrik Ibsen
WinXP, SP3, 512 MB, FF10, SM2.7, TB10, IE8.0, PC Tools Firewall , Avast 6.x, JRE1.7_02
~ Henrik Ibsen
WinXP, SP3, 512 MB, FF10, SM2.7, TB10, IE8.0, PC Tools Firewall , Avast 6.x, JRE1.7_02
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by akbash » Thu 23 Sep, 2004 6:09 pm
Fulvio, how are you saving tabs without some sort sort of tabbing extension? I'm not familiar with the Tabs file you mention.
I'd just like to reiterate, the popup blocker in 0.10 is a piece of work. This is the complete list of known, verifiable weaknesses:
That's it, the complete list. So many holes in the FF 0.9 popup blocker have been filled, and holes remaining in 0.10 are almost all intentional. No clever salesman has discovered a trick of timing; none of the common, marketed exploits have any effect. Those are big words and I stand by them.
Admittedly there are several (hundred?) users who describe varying levels of popup blocking weaknesses ranging the entire gamut from completely nonfunctional to unstoppable control freak that never allows a new window to open at all. As far as I know, and I don't know everything for sure, these people without exception are reporting problems caused by incompatible extensions. The tabbing extensions like Tab Browser Extension are always the worst culprits.
Which takes me back to my opening question, what's this Tabs file you speak of?
PS a suggestion: if you haven't done it already, disable a website's ability to open a popunder. In Firefox, that's Tools Menu -> Options -> Web Features Panel -> Advanced Button, and uncheck "Allow Scripts to Raise or Lower Windows." That prevents a website from hiding a newly opened window behind your window; it makes all popunders be popups. It also stops website authors from imposing themselves on you in yet another way. That box is never checked on my system. But most useful to this discussion, it makes it obvious exactly when the popup was opened, so it'll be obvious if the unexpected windows you're seeing are opened by the events originating from the user "vulnerability."
I'd just like to reiterate, the popup blocker in 0.10 is a piece of work. This is the complete list of known, verifiable weaknesses:
- HTML content designed to look like windows: an unrelated issue that I include in the list only because some folks don't see it that way.
- Events originating from the user, like clicks: mouseclicks and the like are allowed to do as many things as the page author likes. So for this reason people are sometimes surprised when e.g. they click some link on a site, and this link does what they expected -- navigates to some new page -- but also opens a new window. It's a user-originated event, and it's pretty much allowed free reign. This is a technique common to some sites like lycos or tripod. The "ATI All-in-Wonder Radeon 8500DV experiences" link at http://janvlug.tripod.com/ is an example, as are several other links at that site.
- Alerts have always been allowed.
- Closing the webpage in some way: this is a regression in Firefox 0.10 PR1 that I claimed had been fixed in recent builds, but another variant has turned up that isn't fixed at time of writing.
- Plugins like Flash and Java: these are allowed by default to open new windows, but there's a pref for disabling even that.
That's it, the complete list. So many holes in the FF 0.9 popup blocker have been filled, and holes remaining in 0.10 are almost all intentional. No clever salesman has discovered a trick of timing; none of the common, marketed exploits have any effect. Those are big words and I stand by them.
Admittedly there are several (hundred?) users who describe varying levels of popup blocking weaknesses ranging the entire gamut from completely nonfunctional to unstoppable control freak that never allows a new window to open at all. As far as I know, and I don't know everything for sure, these people without exception are reporting problems caused by incompatible extensions. The tabbing extensions like Tab Browser Extension are always the worst culprits.
Which takes me back to my opening question, what's this Tabs file you speak of?
PS a suggestion: if you haven't done it already, disable a website's ability to open a popunder. In Firefox, that's Tools Menu -> Options -> Web Features Panel -> Advanced Button, and uncheck "Allow Scripts to Raise or Lower Windows." That prevents a website from hiding a newly opened window behind your window; it makes all popunders be popups. It also stops website authors from imposing themselves on you in yet another way. That box is never checked on my system. But most useful to this discussion, it makes it obvious exactly when the popup was opened, so it'll be obvious if the unexpected windows you're seeing are opened by the events originating from the user "vulnerability."
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by Edward » Thu 23 Sep, 2004 7:11 pm
The popup blocker in 1.0 PR does not work. I've been getting popups just about everywhere. I'm nearing the point where I am going to uninstall it (Windows and Linux) and not go back to Firefox until it's fixed.
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by Antony » Thu 23 Sep, 2004 7:16 pm
I think we need some examples of sites that can bypass the pop-up/pop-under blocking in Firefox.
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by Andrew T. » Thu 23 Sep, 2004 7:30 pm
I find the problems some people have had with the popup blocker interesting. I will testify that I have not had any problems with it myself. I haven't seen a single pop-up window since I installed Mozilla Firefox 1.0 PR, and the blocker appears to work just as well on my system as that in Mozilla Firefox 0.9.3 and earlier versions.
Indeed. As far as I know, the only pop-up windows not blocked by Firefox 1.0 PR are those on sites I don't visit.
Antony wrote:I think we need some examples of sites that can bypass the pop-up/pop-under blocking in Firefox.
Indeed. As far as I know, the only pop-up windows not blocked by Firefox 1.0 PR are those on sites I don't visit.
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by Edward » Thu 23 Sep, 2004 7:40 pm
I've had popups appear when closing a tab or window with Netscape.com showing.
With the blocker enabled and netscape.com NOT in the allowed list, the popups still got through.
With the blocker enabled and netscape.com NOT in the allowed list, the popups still got through.
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by Antony » Thu 23 Sep, 2004 7:45 pm
Other examples besides Netscape.com?
No pop-up/under in the Apple version of the Netscape.com portal page.
No pop-up/under in the Apple version of the Netscape.com portal page.
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by Andrew T. » Thu 23 Sep, 2004 8:13 pm
I tried visiting http://www.netscape.com/ with Mozilla Firefox 1.0 PR and then closed the tab. Sure enough, at that moment, an unrequested pop-up window then appeared in the background. I then tried repeating the procedure a dozen more times, but couldn't get another pop-up window to display. I maintain that I haven't noticed any pop-up windows appear when I visit any other websites.
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by akbash » Thu 23 Sep, 2004 10:45 pm
See my previous post. This is a known regression.Edward wrote:I've had popups appear when closing a tab or window with Netscape.com showing.
See my previous post. You need to ditch your broken, interfering extensions.Edward wrote:The popup blocker in 1.0 PR does not work.
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by Edward » Fri 24 Sep, 2004 6:03 pm
I tried akbash's suggestion above: Tools/Options/Web Features/Advanced, uncheck "Raise or Lower Windows", and a popup/under still came from Netscape.com when the tab was closed.
After unchecking the above box, I closed Firefox then relaunched it. Apparently, that selection doesn't work.
After unchecking the above box, I closed Firefox then relaunched it. Apparently, that selection doesn't work.
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