WHAT is a -P command line argument?

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WHAT is a -P command line argument?

Postby yankee1620 » Wed 28 Oct, 2009 4:31 pm

This was in the Seamonkey 2.0 profile management. It said to create a -P command line argument. I have no idea what they are talking about...so much of what they say is directed at knowledgeable computer professionals, that it is just plain confusion to dummies like me...

It looks like I will be using Seamonkey 1.1.18 forever. It is easier than having to spend weeks trying to figure out what they are talking about and probably losing everything once more.
Isn't there some easy way to do this without having to know all the confusing technical details and losing all the mail, bookmarks, addresses etc once again?
As it is you will lose two profiles because it will only let you have one.
Can you keep 1.1.18 if you download 2.0 so you will still have the other two profiles?

Sorry, but I am both old 'and stupid and gradually losing my sight as well...
(Netscape 4.0 was 'so easy...LOL)
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Postby PaulD » Wed 28 Oct, 2009 11:49 pm

I'll address the question in the Title of this thread - pertaining to -P.

A -P forces some action concerning the Profile Manager.
When it appears alone, it forces the program to display the panel "Choose User Profile", which lets one specify which of the user's defined profiles is to be used.
If it is followed by the name of a profile, then the program is forced to open using that named profile.

Customarily it is located within a program shortcut.
Right-click on a shortcut, click on Properties, click on the Shortcut tab.
Note: This discussion applies to the Mozilla-family products. If other programs support 'command-line' parameters the syntax will be is the same, although the values will be different.

What occurs when a shortcut is double-clicked, and the -P is omitted or is present?
- If no profile has been defined yet, as occurs when a program is opened for the very first time after it has been installed, then the Profile Manager panel is presented, and one must do a Create Profile. The absence or existence of -P is immaterial.
- If -P is omitted, and only one profile exists, the profile is used. The Profile Manager panel is not displayed.
- If -P is omitted, and multiple profiles exist, the Profile Manager panel is displayed, and one must select which profile is to be used.

- If -P is present alone (no profile name supplied), then the Profile Manager panel is displayed unconditionally, regardless of the number of profiles that have been defined. (There may be no profile in existence yet, or any number may have been defined.)

If the -P is followed by a profile name, then that named profile is used. The Profile Manager panel is not displayed.

I'll use my Firefox as an example; here is what it looks like in the shortcut, in the box labeled Target:
["C:\Program Files\Mozilla Firefox\firefox.exe" -P]
Note that the -P is NOT within the double-quotation marks.

If I wanted to create a shortcut that would always use a profile named Paul, the Target field would look like this:
["C:\Program Files\Mozilla Firefox\firefox.exe" -P Paul]

At the top I said that a -P customarily is used within a Shortcut. But your question used the words 'command line'. The syntax and usage is the same.

I'll let a SeaMonkey user address your other concerns, although I believe that the situation is nowhere near as bleak as you fear. See Fulvio's [sdp=98430]post[/sdp] for an adjustment that may need to be made. Perhaps this is what you encountered.
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Postby Fulvio » Thu 29 Oct, 2009 4:59 pm

Can you keep 1.1.18 if you download 2.0 so you will still have the other two profiles

I have both 1.1.8 and 2.0. The two programs are installed in separate directories, and, if 2.0 is a new installation, you will be given the chance to import the 1.1.8 profile settings.
In order to avoid confusion, the 1.1.8 shortcut cannot be allowed to be called "SeaMonkey". You must rename the shortcut. Since different profiles are used it is perfectly ok to carry on both versions. For now 2.0 has only a few compatible addons, and themes, but being related to Firefox, I can see that in my computer 2.0 will replace 1.1.8
Directories are: C:\Program Files\mozilla.org\SeaMonkey for 1.1.8 and C:\Program Files\SeaMonkey for 2.0.
I use the -p switch for 1.1.8, but I don't for 2.0.
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Postby yankee1620 » Sat 31 Oct, 2009 6:38 pm

Well, thanks for your responses but I still have no idea what a -p switch is...I am not computer knowledgeable and all that professionsl talk goes right over my head, but thanks very much for trying anyway...I will just forget about it as I don't even know what a switch is.
(Is there a forum anywhere for people like me who don't know very much, so we don't tie up people on this forum?)

Question: 1.Can I install 2.0 on top of 1.18 so I don't lose all my mail again etc.? I don't use add ons because I do not use Firefox.
2. Can I just foget all about 2.0 and keep 1.1.18 forever? Secunia is calling 1.1.18 insecure, and I don't think that is fair. How could it be insecure so soon? Just because there is a 2.0 why would 1.1.18 be insecure?

When you talk about different directories I have no idea what you mean. I assume you might mean folder? But what folder and where is it?

(I really miss the easy Netscape!)
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Postby Fulvio » Sun 01 Nov, 2009 2:08 pm

I will try to explain with as few words as possible.
1.The -p switch allows one to use different profiles, if they have been created. If you have only one profile, you don't need to switch, because there is nothing to switch to.
2. The installation of 2.0 does not touch 1.1.8. As I said before, the two programs are installed in different locations. But, since both programs are driven by a file with identical name, i.e. seamonkey.exe, you will find only one shortcut, called SeaMonkey. If you do nothing, the shortcut will open only 2.0. If you rename (right click|rename) SeaMonkey of 1.1.8 to anything else you want, then you will see two shortcuts. The renamed one and that of 2.0.
You should be asked if you want to import the settings of the 1.1.8 profile into the 2.0 profile.
Yes, directories=folders.
3. Insecurity has nothing to do with how long a program has been around. SM2.0 is based on Firefox3.5.4. Firefox3.5.3 is not as secure.
You can keep 1.1.8, and, probably, there will be a 1.1.9, soon.
As 3.5 was made more secure, so was 3.0. As long as a version is supported, it will be updated, and made more secure.

Unfortunately, I had to explain in some detail, but if you want me to be more concise, I will skip the details.
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Postby yankee1620 » Sun 01 Nov, 2009 7:22 pm

Thank you Fulvio...you cleared up a lot for me except -p switch. I understand what it does but I don't know where it is or how to use it.
I have two profiles and in 1.1.18 all I do is click tools and go to switch profile. BUT the release notes said that 2.0 would only import one profile...why can't you have more than one profile in SM2.0?
I have two mailboxes so SM2.0 would be useless to me, and I would lose all the mail in one profile. I would still have to use 1.1.18 to use the other mailbox. In that case there would be no point in having 2.0 as everything is already available in 1.1.18.
Thank you for your patience....
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Postby PaulD » Mon 02 Nov, 2009 1:42 am

Part of your confusion is due to a major change in the architecture after Netscape 4. I had the same 'conversion' problem when I installed Netscape 7. I had carried over the user structure from NS 4, and later discovered that the definition of user mail accounts had been changed and made more versatile. It is different, but better.

As Fulvio affirms, the terms folder and directory are synonymous and interchangeable for us users. (There is a technical difference which is irrelevant here.)
Directory was the term used in DOS; and still is used at times in Windows.
Folder was introduced to help people understand files and folders (the understanding of which is fundamental to knowledgeable computer operation) and the way data are structured and accessed.

One bit of foundational information: every time you see a \ (backslash), it means that what follows is an object (folder or file) that is contained within the previous level (a folder (aka directory)). DOS and Windows use an hierarchical (tree) storage structure.

Your concern pertains to mail, so what follows is limited to this aspect. (Other folders also exist.) Also, the folders' structure below is what is defined by default when one installs the product.

Netscape 4 (Netscape-architecture product) ---
C:\Program Files\Netscape\Users\profile_name\Mail
- The user Profile(s) is/are in the \Users folder buried within \Program Files.
-- Result: A change of program could result in the loss of user data.
- There was a one-to-one relationship between a Profile and an email account.
- To have multiple email accounts one had to define multiple Profiles.

Netscape 7, SeaMonkey, Thunderbird similar (Mozilla-architecture products) (Windows XP path) ---
C:\Documents and Settings\Windows_login_name\Application Data\Mozilla\Profiles\profile_name\xxxxxxxx.slt\Mail\account_identity
-- Note 1: profile_name initially is Default User.
-- Note 2: account_identity is similar in structure to 'pop.att.yahoo.com' (one of my email account identifications)
- In NS7 / SM / TB, user data are separate from the \Program Files folder.
-- Result: One can change programs without affecting user Profile(s) definitions and data.
- There is still only one Mail folder with a Profile, but
- There may be multiple email accounts within the \Mail folder within a Profile.
-- This is a major change.
- And, one can still define multiple Profiles.

Discussion:
Netscape 4 (and earlier): A Profile = a Mail Account
- Example: Profile 1 <=> Account 1; Profile 2 <=> Account 2; etc.

Later NS, TB, and SM: A Profile may have multiple Mail Accounts; and in addition there may be multiple Profiles.
- Example: Profile 1 -> Account 1, Account 2, Account 3, ... Account n
-- (Someplace Fulvio has mentioned that he has something like 10 mail accounts.)
- Example, continued: Profile 2 -> Account 3, Account 5, Account 6, ... Account x
-- Note that an email account may be defined in more that one Profile. Used carefully, this is handy.

A '30,000 foot' view of a complex computer as it pertains to email -
- Multiple Windows logins
- - each with multiple mail programs (Netscape 4, NS 7, SeaMonkey, Thunderbird; some restrictions apply); Outlook Express not detailed here
- - - all programs with multiple mail accounts capability, but implemented variously
- - - - some programs (NS 4) with one account within a profile
- - - - - but multiple profiles definable for multiple accounts
- - - - other programs (SM, TB, NS 7) with multiple profiles
- - - - - wherein each profile may have multiple accounts
- interestingly, with proper definitions and care one could have all these email programs simultaneously open and active. They will not interfere with each other.
- and, again with proper structuring, in general one can have multiple releases of the same program concurrently installed. This is the situation with SM 1.1.18 and SM 2.0.

It takes awhile to get one's head around the implications and flexibility of this fundamental structural change. And if one is 'thinking' in NS 4 methodology then this revised way of defining mail accounts is totally perplexing.

Study the above. See if you can fit what we have said here in this thread into the new structure.
Using Explorer (not Internet Explorer) examine the actual folder names on your computer in light of the pathing outlined above.
Do you understand what a shortcut is, and how it is useful? And how to modify it?

"I still have no idea what a -p switch is ... I don't even know what a switch is"
- A 'switch' is a method of changing the default/normal action of a command.
- A 'command' is the way a user tells the computer what he wants done. When a program is installed, giving the computer a command (for instance) "seamonkey.exe" (preceded by the appropriate path information so that the computer can locate that file) tells the computer to start the SeaMonkey program. Various switches can be included with the command to alter the normal execution operation.
- The -P switch is used to force the Profile Manager portion of the SeaMonkey program to be visibly active. Does [sdp=98432]paragraph 3[/sdp] make more sense?

You ask: "BUT the release notes said that 2.0 would only import one profile...why can't you have more than one profile in SM2.0?"
- I believe that you CAN have more than one Profile in SM. But do you need more than one? Perhaps so, but you may want to reconsider this in light of the different structuring.
- Note that an Import done during installation does not restrict subsequent operations.
And: "I have two mailboxes so SM2.0 would be useless to me, and I would lose all the mail in one profile."
- No; just define the other mail account within the existing profile. Then bring over the mail from Account 2 in SM 1.

"I really miss the easy Netscape!"
- I do too. But ya' can't fit two jet engines on a Spad. One has to learn the new cockpit.

References:
1. http://sillydog.org/netscape/kb/communicator5.php - first paragraph
-- Netscape to Gecko (Mozilla) architecture change.
2. http://kb.mozillazine.org/Profile_folder_-_SeaMonkey
-- great documentation on SeaMonkey; use this - and links therefrom - for detailed
in-depth information.

I'm sorry for the length of this, but I think that I understand why you have concerns, and what is causing them. Ask for expansion / clarification / education as you feel it is needed.
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Last edited by PaulD on Mon 02 Nov, 2009 1:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby yankee1620 » Tue 03 Nov, 2009 6:42 am

Thank you, Paul, and Fulvio!
You really take a lot of time explaining things and it is much appreciated!
I am going to print out your replys...they really explain a lot for me and I will go over them very carefully. (I am on several meds that make me somewhat dull and not as sharp as I used to be...LOL.)
I have been slow to reply because for some reason I no longer get an email notification of replies even though I have it checked off to notify me...
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Postby yankee1620 » Tue 03 Nov, 2009 4:50 pm

Paul...the reason I have two profiles is because I have two email addresses...I am allowed 8 mailboxes but I only use two because I do not want 8 profiles to contend with...two is enough. I have to use tools>switch profile to see if I have mail at the other address and I would really hate to have to do that 8 times.
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Re: WHAT is a -P command line argument?

Postby Amrad » Tue 03 Nov, 2009 5:32 pm

yankee1620 wrote:Paul...the reason I have two profiles is because I have two email addresses...I am allowed 8 mailboxes but I only use two because I do not want 8 profiles to contend with...two is enough. I have to use tools>switch profile to see if I have mail at the other address and I would really hate to have to do that 8 times.

You wouldn't have to do it once, never mind eight times if you put all your email accounts into the same profile! ;)

As Paul said, you can have multiple email accounts in one profile. I have only one profile but it contains four email accounts, not all with the same ISP either!

To add an email account to a profile, in Mail, go to Edit / Mail & Newsgroup Account Settings. At the bottom left, there is a button to 'Add Account'. Click on that and enter the details for another email account, you can do that multiple times.

Regards,

Dave.
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Postby Fulvio » Tue 03 Nov, 2009 7:11 pm

Yankee1620,
I am afraid that you don't understand that a profile can have a bunch of email accounts. I believe that with Netscape4 or earlier, there was one mail account per user (profile). That has changed many years ago, since Netscape7, etc.
My wife and I have five active accounts from our ISP. In addition, I have my Yahoo, AOL, and more accounts, all in the same profile.
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