SillyDog701

[Antony]

It is very sad to see Terri Schiavo being starved... And must be very painful for her parents to watch her slowly dying.

Number one. "What is a religious extremist"?

"Activist", if you prefer to use that word. And what do you call those who pray through megaphones? Don't you think that religious group and politicians should step out this entire case?

So you are one of those that don't understand the Constitution because Judges are not the ones to make law. So if let's say someday the courts decide to "make" it law that non-productive elderly people can be put to sleep...that's ok with you?

When did I ever say that judges can make laws?

Ok....here's one for you. When my ole dog gets to urinating on the floor because her kidneys are gone......I'll just starve her to death. How long would that one fly with you? If I am correctly reading the tone of your post, you'd have the "court" on my butt in a minute.

From my recent reading of various news articles on this Schiavo case, if you live in State of Florida, you may not confine your dog and not feeding your dog food and water. I have no idea about other states.

There are a lot of disabled people in the world that are like Terri. The only difference e is how they get their food. So if a person can't feed themselves and are fully and totally disabled it is OK with you to starve them?

No, but the Terri case is different. I don't think Michael was allowed to euthanise his wife.

How do the doctors know if death by starvation hurts. Remember today's medical thoughts are in the future considered barbaric.

Said by experts. Judges judge things based on today's science and current available technology, which is a very logical thing to do.

I do docs for clients and believe me, if your last wishes aren't in written form, with your signature, a signed witness and seal are not on it I don't believe it. That is what law and your final wishes are about not the hear say of an estranged husband.

I do not work for law, but believe me, non-written statements also works. As for last wishes, things are usually more complicated.

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[jsjag]

I don't think you said judges make law but a lot of people have become lost in the belief that judges do / can make law. Their belief has come from the fact that judges have been stepping outside their bounds and making laws. Judges like to keep jury's in the dark as far as the right of a Jury. The jury (by law) has more control in the court room than a judge. You know when the judge gives the charge for the jury to forget what they just heard and don't use it. "If" the jury really wants to hear about it they can tell the judge, "we as the jury want to hear about it." Now, in today's world of upside down justice you would end up in contempt but the jury would be working within their rights.

Yes, verbal agreements can have a standing for the court to hear a case they can just as easily be considered to have no legal hold.

If the time line that I've read is true, Mr. Shiavo has some questions to answer. First would be that it looks like his duty to act as guardian failed. There are signs that Mr. Shiavo went out of his way to fail in his duty. I'm wondering if the parents have a case for civil court? You know when you take on the duty as guardian, trustee or what ever you have a perceived minimum duty to perform.

Hope there aren't any typos I let my glasses laying at a clients office and I'm not a great typist.

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[Antony]

Up to date:
The Florida Supreme Court has dismissed for the second time in a week -- a bid by Terri Schiavo's parents to have their brain-damaged daughter's feeding tube reconnected.
...
The ruling Saturday night is the third legal blow Schiavo's parents have received within 24 hours. Their motions were also denied earlier in the day by Circuit Court Judge George Greer in Clearwater, Florida, and Friday by the 11th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in Atlanta, Georgia.

Bob and Mary Schindler have now lost nearly 30 legal opinions in both state and federal courts, which have consistently sided with their daughter's husband -- and legal guardian -- Michael Schiavo. He has said that he is simply following his wife's wish not to be kept in a persistent vegetative state. (from Florida high court refuses to hear Schiavo appeal, CNN)

I feel sorry for Mrs. Terri Schiavo and her both families.

Yes, verbal agreements can have a standing for the court to hear a case they can just as easily be considered to have no legal hold.

And written documents can also be forged.
A binding does not necessary to be in the form of writing.

First would be that it looks like his duty to act as guardian failed. There are signs that Mr. Shiavo went out of his way to fail in his duty.

Mr. Schiavo does not perform his duty as guardian?
May I ask if there're any duties (listed by court) requiring Mr. Schiavo to perform? And followed by which of those Michael Schiavo failed to perform, I'd be very happy to know.

According to CNN report, http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/03/26/schiavo/index.html
Felos [Michael's attorney] said that Michael Schiavo has been at his wife's bedside around the clock, except when her other family members want to visit.

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[James]

I generally refrain from entering these types of discussions. I do believe, however, that it is wrong of Mr. Schiavo to prevent his dying wife from receiving Holy Communion during the Easter vigil. I know that she received last rites but it seems to me that his allowing her to receive a miniscule piece of bread and wine which would undoubtedly give peace to Terri's distraught mother and father is wrong. I believe that he will ultimately have to answer for this. But I'm not his judge and this is simply my opinion on the matter. Sorry if my remarks offends anyone. Thanks.

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[Ron Williams]

technically this violates her religious and if Jeb Bush wanted to take emergency custody of her at this time, the court could do nothing to stop him. At that time then the states attorney for florida would be required to get involved and lobby for her to stay in states custody. I doubt that Michaels attorney could beat the states attorney considering that it would be a team of lawyers. So my opinion of Jeb Bush is he is a murderer also because he refuses to get involved in. The only way he is not is if he gets involved in this.

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[Lorraine]

It is a shame the way Terri Shiavo is being treated.
She wasn't brain dead. She wasn't dying. She wasn't a
terminally ill person. She was able to sit in a wheelchair.

It's absolutely scandalous that the Shindler's have
lost all court cases and are only allowed to visit their daughter, with the husbands consent. I really don't
know how they go on. It makes me feel sick.

The husband said; "His wife would not want to live that way."
I would think that without a written mandate it is "just heresay". The law is an A$$ and should have been contested.

Life doesn't seem to mean very much in the U.S.A.
The President doesn't seem to mind sending young, fit men to war, without unilateral consent from the U.N., and yet in his own country, he doesn't use the power to Veto the ruling which is starving Terri Shiavo, of food and especially water.

As for the Governor of Florida, he just doesn't have the guts and it has all just been a political manoever. He is probably thinking that in the future he would like to run for President. If he is so committed, stop the tragedy.

Shiavo's has another family, including children with another woman, and that should have been taken into consideration. The Shindler's should have had custody of their daughter years ago.

Now there is a difference of opinions on funeral arrangements. My goodness, what on earth is the matter with Mr. Shiavos?

In your twenties people often say things they really don't mean. As they get older, they
have a little experience and perspectives change.

It's time to write a new Constitution. I don't know how old it is, but I know it's over 200 years. People are not pioneers trekking the Oregon trail anymore.

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[Ron Williams]

Most interesting is that I thought all three branches of government are equal. So how can one part of the government over-rule the other two and there be no loop holes. If a president veto's a bill (a law in making) it can go back to congress and if it passes again it goes to the courts to be approved. Now you can see how the system of "checks and balances" works for the legislative(congress) branch and the executive(president) branch, but then all power is given to the courts. The only time when the president over-rules congress is in war, the president can go to war for 90 days (i think its 90) and congress can not say anything about it, but after 90 days they can pull troops back. I think there needs to be a reform to certain rules regarding the supreme court. Especially now that the supreme court refuses to hear a case regarding a persons religious rights which are clearly violated.

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[Antony]

I am really lost by your saying.

technically this violates her religious and if Jeb Bush wanted to take emergency custody of her at this time, the court could do nothing to stop him.

What has *violated* her religion?
And why can't the court stop Jeb Bush?

So my opinion of Jeb Bush is he is a murderer also because he refuses to get involved in. The only way he is not is if he gets involved in this.

I thought Jeb Bush has intervened a lot. Jeb Bush said he has done everything possible within his authority to help the family.

Recall: Back in October 2003, Florida's "Terri's Law," allowing Florida Gov. Jeb Bush to stay the judge's order and direct that the feeding tube be reinserted.
(Note, the following year, The Florida Supreme Court declares "Terri's Law" unconstitutional. Jeb Bush later appeared to the U.S. Supreme Court, but rejected.)

Especially now that the supreme court refuses to hear a case regarding a persons religious rights which are clearly violated.

Religious rights?
I thought Mrs. Terri Schiavo's parents were simply asking the feeding tube to be re-inserted. What's that to do with religious right?

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[James]

Hi Antony

I "think" what piranrew is saying is that Mr. Shiavo's refusal to allow his wife to take Holy Communion is a violation of her religious rights. I'm not saying this is the case BUT I do think that it is a pretty low blow by her husband given the fact that the elements are miniscule and that this would bring immense comfort to her parents. Put yourself in the place of Mary Shindler for a moment. She has been told that she cannot provide any physical nourishment to her dying daughter. This would tear out the heart of any mother. BUT to deny the right to allow her to be communed one last time, particularly on the most holy day of the year for Christians (i.e. Easter) which would undoubtedly bring her a measure of comfort and peace of mind) is contemptible. Whether her so-called rights have been violated or not is irrelevant as far as I can see. It's a very difficult question and I only hope and pray that none of us ever have to face such a situation. We can afford to intellectualize the whole situation but for Mary Shindler... this is her dying daughter. Surely allowing this to bring her some peace of mind is not asking too much... is it? Apparently it is.

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[James]

A couple of other small but confusing items that are being reported this morning on Yahoo news. The first is a report that Terri is being given morphine to "ease the pain". Pain? For the past several days we have heard from Michael's lawyers that she is not suffering at all... that there is no pain but rather she is dying "peacefully.

The second news report is the refusal of Michael's lawyers to allow any film reporting (similar to what was being shown earlier when the parents would go in and care for Terri). There are reports (I can't substantiate them) that Terri cried the last time her mother held her. "If" she is in a completely vegetative state and "if" she is comatose, why would Michael refuse to allow any of this? What possible damage could be done to his case now that all courts in the land have refused to intervene? If you carry his refusal through in your thinking, it seems to me that he (no doubt it is on the advice of his lawyers) is afraid of how public opinion would be altered were the public to see for itself the current situation.

These reports need to be substantiated of course. I'm merely presenting them along as further evidence that the waters are very muddy indeed.

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[Lorraine]

If that is true that she is being administered morphine, they will increase dosage as the days pass by, then she will probably have massive seizures and expire.

Just make sure you have an Infirmaty Mandate, then it will really be your wishes and not somebody else deciding what to do with you should you end up infirm.

-Lorraine

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[Antony]

Put yourself in the place of Mary Shindler for a moment. She has been told that she cannot provide any physical nourishment to her dying daughter. This would tear out the heart of any mother.

James,

Personally, I do feel sorry for Mary Shindler, Bob Shindler, and the entire family.
Terri's parents were very desperate, as far as I can tell. It must be a very painful week for them to watch Terri Schiavo dying but cannot do anything not because they can't, but they are not allowed.

In the same time, I also believe that for both families, knowing one member was in persistent vegetative state (at least being testified by the court) for 15 years must not been easy for them all through this period. Mrs Terri Schiavo cannot talk, cannot eat by herself; she can breath, and her heart beats.

However, this family issue has involved religious supporters and politicians. Do those religious extremists really care about Terri? Or they just could not miss out this opportunity to demand law changes? Politicians? perhaps votes are more important.

Again, I feel sorry for Terri and her families.

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[Antony]

The second news report is the refusal of Michael's lawyers to allow any film reporting (similar to what was being shown earlier when the parents would go in and care for Terri). [...] What possible damage could be done to his case now that all courts in the land have refused to intervene?

Felos [, Michael Schiavo's attorney,] said that "it felt right and appropriate that Mrs. Schiavo not be fed and sustained through an artificial device" and that "she has a right to die with dignity" and "in peace" without the release of video and photographs of her at this time. (CNN: Schindlers' lawyer: Legal fight near end)

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[James]

In some ways that does make sense. If it were my daughter, I also would not want filming to occur. I can certainly understand his refusal in this regard.

The morphine, however, is another issue. For hospice workers to be administering this drug for pain that we've been assured she is not feeling, I find this both confusing and questionable. It's all very strange.

Anyway... I've said far more than I generally do so I think I'll withdraw from the discussion. I've no right to judge anyone in this situation. Please forgive me if my comments caused offense.

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[Lorraine]

Antony wrote:

In the same time, I also believe that for both families, knowing one member was in persistent vegetative state (at least being testified by the court) for 15 years must not been easy for them all through this period. Mrs Terri Schiavo cannot talk, cannot eat by herself; she can breath, and her heart beats.

How can you say she is in a persistant vegetative state?
She has not had the rehabilitation that she should have had. She evidently was doing very well, until her husband decided to stop it. Probably because he would have had to delve into the $300,000 which he received for himself. There was $750,000. left for Terri's care, out of the million dollar malpractice suit.

Seems to me, had he allowed the parents to handle the dollars for Terri, she would have progressed much farther and perhaps would not have been curled up in a bed in a hospice. We haven't seen any recent videos of her. The ones that they show are five years old.
In them, her eyes move, she smiles, who knows what is being said to her, she is happy to see her mother. What is vegetative about that? They just don't know!

Neuroscience just doesn't know how the brain works.
I know this from experience. There are advances daily.
Surely in the U.S. they have some of the finest neurologists and a PET scan should have been done.
To my knowledge it wasn't.
It seems that New York is too far away from Florida.
Perhaps more money should be put into Health and Hospitals, so they can buy needed equipment, instead of wars and space.

Neurologists work hard, they see brain damage daily and see improvements they never dreamed could happen. Don't tell me that everything was done for Terri.

This is something that has become a soap opera, it shouldn't be that way, it is sad for many people suffering from brain malfunction, infirmaties, as well as for the Shindler family and Terri.

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